Host: We're doing something a little different today. I turned over the mic to Chelsea Wood, director of the Acquisition Lab. The lab students are routinely 90% male, and Chelsea is eager to help balance that ratio out. She believes, as I do, that buying a business is an incredible path, equally so for women as for men. So Chelsea and I recruited three different female searchers, two of whom you may recognize, to talk about their experiences with Chelsea Moderating. Chelsea has spoken to more searchers than even I have. In fact, many, many more searchers. So she knew exactly how to draw out key aspects of each panelist's story. The result is a fascinating conversation between three entrepreneurs who've recently acquired businesses. Thank you, Chelsea Wood, for the idea and moderation of this panel. Without further ado, here's Chelsea. Welcome to Acquiring Minds, a podcast about buying businesses. My name is Will Smith. Acquiring an existing business is an awesome opportunity for many entrepreneurs, and on this podcast I talk to the people who do it. You've probably heard me mention SM Bash, the conference in Orlando for acquisition entrepreneurs, SMB owners and investors. It was such a valuable event. I met no less than 12 acquiring minds guests that there in person, hosts of other podcasts in this space. And if you're on SMB Twitter, it was a who's who of all the biggest accounts. Well, SM Bash is coming back around this time in Austin in April, and I'll definitely be going back. I'm told by the SM Bash team that this year they're going even deeper on content relevant to search, including a focus on finding investors for your acquisition and inviting a lot of investors to attend as well. For serious searchers or those who've recently acquired, SMBash is really the leading event. There are others associated with universities, but as far as I'm aware, this is the biggest and best indie conference for entrepreneurship through acquisition. Check out smbash.com six letters S M B A S-H.com or click the link in the show notes. See you in Austin.

Guest 2: Thank you for everyone for coming together to discuss your journey as a female acquisition entrepreneur. I'm Chelsea Wood, Managing Director for Acquisition Lab and M and A advisor. One of the biggest challenges that I've personally experienced in the space is a lack of representation of women. I've always been one of a few women in a sea of hundreds of M and A professionals, and unfortunately, the lab membership and the applicant base reflects the same. For some reason, it seems like men are more likely to pursue this path than women. And so to shine a light on the fact that it is a wonderful and very fulfilling path that women should embrace. I'm joined today by three successful female acquisition entrepreneurs, Cassie Niekamp, Ann Ristick, and Morli Desai. They're going to share their stories about their individual journeys with you and lessons that they've learned in hopes of inspiring other women to take control of their career paths and buy their next adventure. We're going to get started with Cassie. So, Cassie, can you talk to us a little bit about how you made the decision to buy a company?

[3:15] Guest 3: Sure. Thanks for having me, Chelsea. The decision to own a company seemed very far off initially for my husband and I. We had talked about one day owning a business, one day, you know, making. Creating our own path. I guess, you know, you've sit through enough bad corporate meetings or have enough bad leaders, and you think, I can maybe do this better for, you know, somebody else. And that was kind of our case personally. We had gone through a lot of challenges in having a second child, and I had just suffered a miscarriage, and I was feeling very introspective about how I wanted to spend my time. And all of the sudden, those bad corporate meetings became worse for me. And I'm like, this is not it. This is not. My talents are more suited in something else. And I just had this internal itch. So I kind of took a leap by doing some research on my own and drugged my husband behind me. And I said, there is this amazing business for sale. I think we have to go take a look at it. And he was like, we are not buying a business. This is not a good time. And after that first meeting with the seller, we walked away and we went out for drinks. And he goes, we're buying this business. And it was just like this kismet meeting between the seller and us. And it just felt at home and very peaceful. I think that if I were to go back to my younger self, I would say maybe it would not be wise to tell others that the first business you interact with is the, you know, the business you buy. I don't know if that's the resounding message I want people to take away from this, but it just happened where all the doors opened along our due diligence process and made a really neat transition for us in a very cohesive transition with the former owner.

Guest 2: No. And I love the message to your younger self. And I'm wondering, when you told your support system that you were going to buy a business, how did they react?

Guest 3: Okay, so we bought a fencing company. It was a 40 year old fencing company, it was doing less than a million, roughly about 700,000. The owner was a fencing installer, like he knew fencing all of his life. His dad was a fencing installer. My family is full of construction men and women, my entire family. And so we're very comfortable with construction. My family is not very comfortable with risk. I have found they were like, this is a bad idea. You know nothing. I'm like, no, I know I don't know anything about fencing, but I have an idea around business and that's what I want to do to, you know, look at all this low hanging fruit. This is amazing. This is a gold mine. They were like, no, I don't think so. Oddly enough, my mother in law, who's a nurse, knows nothing about business. Just a big fan of. Cassie was my biggest cheerleader. She's like, you can do anything, you're amazing. And that was really kind of the interesting dichotomy between my mother in law knowing nothing about construction, nothing about business, versus my family saying, I think you better think again. You know, so it's been fun.

[6:33] Guest 2: No, that's wonderful. How did it impact you having that kind of conflict? So you had your mother in law supporting you, you had your family kind of going, what is like you're insane. Which by the way, is a normal reaction to going and buying a business. We're all a little crazy for doing it. Yeah, but, but how did that affect you and your journey?

Guest 3: There was one conversation that kind of put me back on my heels and that was, my brother's an electrician, an amazing, hardworking man. It was over New Year's Eve 2021. Picture this, the ball is dropping, the cocktails are flowing and he's like, you're insane. You know nothing, you know, like this is not a wise decision. And my husband is so level headed and he's so supportive and he sees he, he's got a gift of a visionary. If you know much about eos, he's the visionary, I'm the implementer. And I was like, oh no, my own brother doesn't think this is a good idea. And I'm about to take on a team of eight of him. This won't land well during the transition. How will I win their approval? How will I get them on my team? And I remember going to bed that night thinking I might be too in deep, like, what have I thought? And on the way home, we always do New Year's Eve in a cabin. So there's a drive home. I said to my husband, I'm like, are, are we crazy? Are we off? Like is this, have we got it all wrong? And we talked through it and at the time we were like, you know, he has some valid points, but here's how we're going to approach it differently.

Host: And

Guest 3: that gave me kind of the reassurance around let's stay the course and see this through. So.

Guest 2: Oh, I love that. And Ann, you had already successfully bought a law firm or built a law firm, and so how did you make the decision? Like, I'm good with that. Now I'm going to go buy a business.

Guest 4: So it's so interesting to hear Cassie's story because lots of parallels, but lots of really different things. And you know, probably the biggest thing is my life stage. Right. Like I'm at the. I was for sure late career. I had been at my law firm for my entire career, which was over 30 years. And I had been in this management role for, you know, co managing partner for about 20 years. So, you know, I didn't so much decide it was kind of a two step process for me. Well, it was many steps. But you know, I didn't start with I'm going to buy a business. I was more thinking about, you know, I had kind of reached a certain ceiling. I mean, I'd loved my job, I'd loved my firm, but it wasn't, I wasn't going to be able to continue to grow and do different things. And what I liked about my experience in the firm was the growth journey that I'd had early in my tenure where we were really growing as a law firm. The firm is fantastic, still growing, still doing great. But I mean, it wasn't at that really ambitious growth phase that I had really loved. And so my management role was more, you know, continuing to shepherd things along and I felt like I wanted to take where I really excel. So my thought was I really like guiding an organization through growth when there's an ambitious growth goal. And so I was trying to think about where would I find that how could I take what I had done at Steckmanelli, at my law firm and do that again in a different environment. But I wasn't really thinking about buying a business because unlike Cassie, obviously I'm not that entrepreneur. And I kind of felt like other people buy businesses. Like that's a whole different thing. And it just seemed like not. I was, that was not the kind of thing that a person like me would, would, would do. So there were a couple of things though for me that really kind of demystified the, the whole process. And that is, I've said to Will, one of the things I love about Will's podcast, which I had never, you know, encountered until after I bought the business, but that whole sort of, it just demystifies the process. And the biggest thing for me was, was really, you know, my network. So one thing good thing about being an older person is you and having been in the workforce for so long is you have a much larger and more varied network than certainly than I did in my early stages. So there were quite a few people, although on Cassie's point, some pro, some con, but, you know, quite a few people with experience who could, you know, help me. But, you know, the key thing that probably the biggest impact was one of my former partners at Steichman Elliott, Mario Negro, who does a lot of work in this space. You know, he was talking to me about a bunch of different options kind of early in my thought process. And he was like, but you should buy business. And I was like, I kind of really discounted it at first because of all the things I just said, but then I kept coming back to it and he kind of took me through. He demystified a bunch of things like, what is the process? The search, then the deal making, acquisition part, then the, you know, running and growing the business, then, you know, the sale and exit. Like, how does that all work? You know, he demystified the economics. Like, how do you get the money? And it kind of, you know, what are you looking for? What are buyers looking for? All of this stuff, which is not kind of now, in retrospect, I feel like not rocket science. And again, Will's podcast is really great for this, but I just didn't, I felt like he held up a mirror for me of like, and here are all the things that you've already done. And then there are lots of parallels in this whole now demystified process. And I did start thinking, you know, I, I could, I could maybe do this. And then kind of with that, I, I, as I was talking to other people in my network and talking about thinking about doing it, you know, some were super supportive. Some were like, sure, I'm sure you could do it if you want to do it, but like, why would you want to leave your ivory tower office and go do this other thing? And some people were a little bit like Cassie's brother on New Year's Eve, so. But I feel, I felt like engaging my network once the process was, was demystified. And Chelsea, I will also give a little Plug for Buy, Then Build and Walker's book. Because that was the second thing I've told Will. This that happened after I had started thinking about this and talking to Mario is that Amazon actually recommended that I might like Buy, Then Build. And I did like it because I felt like he does the same. You read it and you kind of go, okay, I could do this. Not that it's simple and not that this. You know, it's just like rolling off a log. But it feels like, okay, these are steps that are well within my, My, my skill set. So that whole demystifying thing was really important for me and my network. Super important.

[13:56] Guest 2: Well, I love that. And I've heard the same thing from so many people. Right. Everyone reads books, they watch podcasts. And one thing Moralee that you mentioned was that a book was big in your journey, right. And kind of helping you think through it. Would you mind talking? I love providing books for people to read because this market loves that. Right. Everybody wants to know the next book to read. And so would you share the book that you shared with me?

Guest 5: Yeah. So it kind of goes into my story about why I decided to buy a business. But I read this book called 4000 Weeks by Oliver Berkman. And 4000 Weeks is about our life, right? It's 80 years, and I turned 40 in 2021, and I was like, well, wow, I only have 2000 weeks left. Like, I, I need to, like, get on this vision that I had created. And it took me a couple of years to actually to make it happen. And yeah, in 2021, I.

Guest 3: My.

Guest 5: My youngest child turned one, so he wasn't attached to me anymore. I got unmarried and, oh, we had this pandemic, right? And I would. That autopilot merry go round that we all were on came to a screeching halt. And it just made me realize that if I don't do this now, I'm never going to do it. And I don't want to have that regret. And so that was a big part of my decision to actually, you know, go from reading the books and doing the research and, you know, watching the communities to actually getting out there full time. And I quit my corporate job and did it full time and gave me. Gave myself a couple of years to get out there and do it. And I was like, well, I could always go back to corporate if I need to.

[15:37] Guest 2: Oh, I love that. And that's literally what led me to leaving corporate America to build the lab was I realized the number of bedtimes was finite. And I was spending so many bedtimes helping executives make their businesses better and I realized I was running out of bedtimes. And now we have the lab and so would you talk a little bit more, Lee, about your experience searching? Right. What was the biggest challenge for you?

Guest 5: Yeah, I just closed my business a couple of weeks ago. So the search phase and the closing phase is very fresh in my mind. And searching was hard for me and I had to pivot quite a bit. You know, searching was very akin to sales. And I was watching some of my fellow searchers were, you know, have these CRMs going, have these tech stacks with demand generation, automated emails going out to all the brokers. And that's just not my style. I'm more of a one on one relationship person. And I started reaching out to a couple of brokers and I just wasn't getting good responses. You know, they tend to be older white males and, you know, and it's just not as comfortable of a conversation. I think they're used to listening to talking with other male business searchers. And so it wasn't a great kind of fit for me. So I decided to pivot to do more of a proprietary search. I was geographically focused in the greater Atlanta area, so I decided to kind of, you know, similar to Ann, use my network and kind of see if I would have some luck there. And I did. I met a lot of great business owners and I had some great conversations. But I also got sucked up into a lot of, a lot of time with these business owners that were at the end of the day just kicking the tires and seeing what their company was worth. I had put in three to four Lois, and we just couldn't agree on valuation. And to no fault of their own, right? Business owners think their businesses are worth a gazillion dollars and they just didn't have that. They hadn't had that conversation with the broker to understand. No, there's actually a marketplace and, and there are comparables. You can't just ask the moon and ask for valuation based on some future potential. And so after submitting a couple of Lois and felt like I was wasting time, I was very down because it's a very lonely process too. I found the acquisition lab and that was what I needed to not only refine my search of what exactly I was looking for, but to also get the talk track together and to be able to go, you know, I went back to the brokers because at least I knew with the brokers the business owners were being schooled on on what to expect from a valuation standpoint. And then lastly, the community. Right. You know, Chelsea, you were a huge part of that having a female advisor and I loved the women forums that you hosted because it is lonely out there and especially being a female searcher and then having the advisors to help me with any of my questions. And so. So that was really the hard part about searching. But I felt like once I kind of got in the groove with the acquisition lab, it only took me a couple of months to find the business that I eventually closed on.

[19:12] Guest 2: And that's exciting. I loved being a part of your journey. Right. I do love that the lab has given me because, you know, the women that are there and we have like 10% women. It's not as high as I would like it to be, but we try to support each other and I enjoyed that.

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Guest 2: I know, Cassie, you, when we first spoke, you shared that you had a moment where you kind of got really, really cold feet. And you manage that moment kind of by relying on your network and the people that you had brought on as your transaction team. So will you share a little bit about that? Because I think it's a common experience.

[21:06] Guest 3: Yeah, I think for reference, we were about a month away from closing and to morally's point, like we could not get the valuation to make sense with what the SBA was willing to lend. So the business thought, you know, and with our acquisition, we actually bought two acres as well. So what I've learned is like the real estate evaluation valuation was separate from the business valuation, but we still need funding for the whole thing. And then there was an inventory component as well. The company had never done inventory, so you can imagine how gray that scenario was. It was about a month out and I'm looking at the hard dollars. What is Cassie fronting for this SBA loan? What is coming out of our pocket? And oh, by the way, this murky gray land of inventory in this two acre property was very troubling in terms of where the valuation actually came back at was 200,000 less than what the owner was asking for the land itself. Business valuation, perfect. Land and inventory, 200,000 less. Our lender has been an SBA lender for, let's say, 25 years. And she had said I had never seen a discrepancy like this. Like, to bridge this gap, sister, we're in for a ride, you know. So I'm looking at the hard dollars and cents and I'm like, this feels scary. I make a call to our attorney and I'm practicing my speech ahead of time of how I'm going to get out of this deal. And I'm talking to him and I'm saying the words clear as day, I want out. And he's basically not accepting my language. He's like, I hear you, but you don't, and here's why. And he basically said, there is not a searcher I have ever worked with that has not gotten to this point. Cassie, it is normal. It is natural. Let's go back to day one, what you told me. Let's go back to the previous conversations. What you're feeling now is normal. Like, here is how we're going to attack this next conversation. Couple weeks. Gosh, we had such a good attorney. I mean, I just, he's a lovely man, very experienced, and through that conversation got me on the other side of that fear I was experiencing.

Guest 2: I think the, there's such power in choosing your transaction team, and we talk about this a lot, is you want to make sure you're not choosing on terms or price. You're looking for strategic thought partners, and that's what I hear. And what you had in your, in your team was the strategic thought partners that kind of kept you on track. I love that he took you back to the beginning. Right. I feel like if you're not scared, I've had this conversation with a few members, both pre and post close. Like, if you're not scared, something's not right. Right. Because it is a scary thing. You are doing something that is high Risk. Right. But as long as you've done your due diligence, you found a business that needs you, it's going to be fine. Right. You just have to ride that, Ride out the change curve, basically. If you're familiar with the change curve. No, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. If we could talk a little bit about. So you've got the search process and then you have the act of actually getting to closing like you just shared. Right. And so would you share a little bit about, I guess what your biggest lessons were. Right. When it comes to closing and transitioning, what's your biggest kind of key takeaway that you would tell other people?

[24:46] Guest 3: I was just thinking about this yesterday. So, gosh, I would just take walks for months leading up to the transition. And I've had time to dream about this business. I've had time to think about the people I know more. And it's like this, this foreshadowing that you have around how this is going to go. And I remember the first Monday morning meeting. I'm, I have like my PowerPoint. I'm so nervous and there's like a bunch of construction dudes sitting in a circle and they're like, lady, get on with it.

Guest 2: You know,

Guest 3: And I was just so nervous because I had, you know, this was a big moment for us. But one of the things I think we did well was the Friday before we had like a retirement going away party for the teams. So it was after our signing, we could at least experience the team in a casual setting. And I observed very quickly there, clicks around what crews belonged to, what crews who identified with what people. It was actually extremely interesting. And then Monday morning was when we had that formal meeting and they were, you know, they could sense my nerves. I'm certain of it. One of the things that we really tried to do, or I really tried to do was listen to our team. What's worked well, what hasn't. Change is not easy for anybody. And in fact, a year and a half later, I can confirmly say change management is the most difficult thing I've ever done. So I think it's getting on the same page. Listening, a lot of listening, a lot of referring back. I have asked our head field superintendent to do more and to change more in the past year and a half. Then probably he even realizes. And I know at times it was feeling like a bit of a rustle, a dance. Sometimes I was frustrated, sometimes he was frustrated, Sometimes we were both elated with a new idea. And I think to go back to that time, though, I don't. I think I'm really proud of the actions we took. I'm proud of the slowing down to speed up that we did. And the only thing that I wish would have went a bit different is there was a very close family relationship that the former field superintendent was actually the former owner's nephew. This nephew had been running the business for 35 years. He knew two weeks before the company was to go to sell and came into the relationship a bit soured. When I think about my part in that, you know, I. I don't think that I had a lot of advantage in that scenario. And I'm guessing that the former owner wishes he would have done things a bit different to get through that transition smoothly. He ended up staying on for about three months, but it was just really clear that this was just not going to work out long term. And I feel sad about that for him. You know, our companies continue to grow and thrive amidst that. But I do feel sad for him about that news being presented the way it did. I think we could have had a much different outcome.

[28:01] Guest 2: I think that's a powerful realization. And actually, one of our advisors, Kenza, was just sharing something similar on LinkedIn. It's like the. The people component of buying businesses is painful, right? And it's okay to have pain points around your business when it comes to the people. You know, not everything's going to be held, handled perfectly. And I think the change process in general is the most complicated part of life. Business relationships, personal, professional. And you're going through your own change journey. Your employees are going through their own change journey. And everybody interacting with your business, vendors and everybody, they're all going through their own change journey as well. And when you start to kind of have those intersect, it becomes even more painful. So I will just say, I think if everyone could give themselves some grace, that they're doing the best they can with what they have in the moment. But I do think that it's beautiful to look back and recognize that employees of businesses that are being acquired are being significantly impacted by that decision. And that's part of the reason I got into transactions, actually. My own mother went through six transactions and lost her job every time. And it was very painful every time. And so I. And I was hoping that by impacting as many business owners as I've had the privilege of impacting, that we could kind of treat the human side a little bit more sensitively than it historically has been treated. And I love that you have that realization. Okay, Marlee, I know that you had some challenges too. And so do you want to talk a little bit about kind of what the lesson you would impart on others around closing?

Guest 5: Yeah, definitely. So I'm only a couple weeks into transition, so I definitely come back to me in a couple months about that. But the closing part is something that's very fresh. So I ended up purchasing an E commerce business. It's an online retailer of skincare products called Amira Natural Skincare. And we also, I also used sports financing. And when I had submitted my LOI, we had negotiated down to 75 days of exclusivity. And I was quick. Like as soon as the LOI got signed, I got the bank started with their stuff and around day 60 they still hadn't come back from underwriting. And so I was starting to freak out. Plus I'm watching this was kind of in the fall, so I'm watching the interest rates start to creep up every time there's that Fed meeting. And I'm getting nervous that, you know, with lending requirements starting to tighten up and it will be long stretches at a time where I get radio silence from the bank. And you know, luckily around day 60 where I've got 15 days of exclusivity left and the bank comes back with the commitment letter, um, and I had decided to go at risk and just start, get my lawyer started on the documents. Um, obviously I'd gotten the, the accountants and the diligence firm engaged. And so I was already deep into deal fees while I was still waiting for the bank. And then even when the bank came back with their final checklist, you know, and I had heard like, you need to get life insurance, you need to get business insurance, you need to get like tax clearance letters. And so the list, each one of those required, you know, two weeks, 30 days to get them done. You know, one of the things we needed was a tax clearance letter from the state of Delaware. And for being such a business friendly state, they only did things by mail. And so we had no idea when we would get some of this stuff. And so luckily the seller was amenable to prolonging our exclusivity period. But I was getting very nervous and we got to a point where I didn't think we'd get it done by the end of the year. And so I had gone to the bank and said, hey, what happens if this gets rolled over into the new year? And they were like, we can't guarantee you funding. You got to get this done in December. Otherwise this deal is dead. So there was that moment kind of similar to Cassie, where I was like, oh, my God, Like, I don't know if this is going to get done right?

[32:26] Guest 3: The.

Guest 5: The bank is telling me that the deal's got to get done. And then we were already in December, and we still had these checklist items because we were waiting for the life insurance to come back after the. The physical. We were waiting for the business insurance to get bound after that piece. We're waiting for this elusive tax clearance letter that only get gets sent in the mail. And it just miraculously happened kind of mid December. Within 24 hours, all these final pieces somehow kind of came to fruition, and we were able to get it closed kind of late December, right before Christmas. And so looking back, I don't know if there's anything I could have done differently, except my advice is, especially if you've got a lender or you've got the SBA to stay, stay on top of it and make sure they've ordered the appraisal, they've done the title search, the. You know, there's just all these random requirements, and banks are very bureaucratic and they will not close if they don't have every single checklist item. Even if you're like, it's got to be here in two days, they will hold the closing. And then just making sure you're communicating with the seller and just explaining to them that it's not in your control. Like, I was on the phone every day with multiple people and just saying, hey, we've got to speed this up. We got to speed this up. I'm going to lose this deal. And so, yeah, it's a roller coaster. So also, be ready. Be ready for that piece of it.

[33:58] Guest 2: No, I think that. And I've seen a deal fall apart for the opposite. Right. There was a member who didn't push things through. Right. They really did just kind of wait for the bank to let them know things were happening. And so I think that's really, really keen insight to provide, is that you are driving the bus, right? And you have to make sure that you drive it the entire way. If you sit back and you wait for things to happen, then you're right. I do think that that's how deals can fall apart. Somebody has to be driving and it is you. It doesn't feel like it's you because there's a lot of other people, right. That you have to kind of keep on track, but it is you driving. I think that's really helpful. Thank you. Ann, as a female business owner, what do you think your biggest kind of hurdle has been?

Guest 4: Well, so I would say probably have a couple of comments. One is gender related and one's not gender related. So let me start with the one that's not a gender point. So I feel like, and this is going to sound like, so stating the obvious, knowing yourself and knowing your skill set is super important. So I talked about kind of the fact that kind of deconstruct and we've talked about it here too, kind of deconstructing those phases in the, you know, search and then acquisition and then operating. And that's like, those are really, really different and they take really different skills. You need to be able to obviously participate and do them all. But I felt like, what is the part where I excel, where I want? What's my sweet spot? For me, that is kind of the operation, operational, organic growth phase. And so, but you need obviously to do the search and do the acquisition. And you know, when again, I'm going to talk about Will's podcast guests, lots of, you know, you listen to them, lots of them clearly, like, they revel in the, in the search and acquisition phase. And then once they buy a company, it's a platform and they're going to be serial acquirers. And that whole sort of acquisition is the goal for me. I mean, I'm certainly keeping my eyes open and I'm open to bolt on acquisitions or whatever. So it's not that I'm not planning on more acquisitions, but for me, I was looking for a business, wanting to find a business where I could excel in that sort of operation and growth and, and, and, and so on. And I think that one of the, the, you know, I'm going to frame it as a positive as opposed to a hurdle. One of the things that you can really do is, you know, think about where you're going to focus and, and maybe how you're going to fill in, you know, the gaps that you have if you're not like I was, I knew, I didn't even know the term search as a term in this environment. I sort of, so, you know, partnering up with, you know, my, I have a colleague in, in the acquisition that we did who was like the classic searcher. So that was good that we were, you know, able to be complimentary. So, so is it a hurdle? Is it a learning for me as a female business owner, like, know your skills and surround, know the different phases and you know, make, surround yourself with people who, you know, can, can, can help you at the phases that you're maybe not as, as, as adept. You know, on the, on the, on the gender related point. You know, I would say that I have a very, and this was the case in the law firm and is the case now I have a very sort of consultative and collaborative leadership style. And you know, it's not just my personality or my personal style. It is the way that I have found is the, you know, best way to empower the team and get the most out of the, you know, team. And, and the, for me it really has been a way to get things done and really accomplish things. And I think there's lots of research from, you know, Jim Collins and good to great on about how that is a really good leadership style to, to have. I would say though that it's a double edged sword if you're a woman maybe using that leadership style because you know, people kind of don't, may sometimes they don't think that maybe you're as experienced and knowledgeable because you're not laying down the law and telling them what to do. You're sort of consulting and what do you guys think? And, and I do have people in my network from my old law firm and now who are like, Ann, you're being too modest. You got to lay down the law a little bit more. If I were a man, I, again, and I shouldn't caught, you know, I shouldn't say this because I'm not a man. So I can't, you know, make this, this assumption, but I kind of assume that if I were a man at my stage of life and I was, you know, kind of consulting, people would be saying, isn't that great that that guy, you know, with all the experience he has, he's consulting us and he's talking to us and you know, that's, that's, that's really great. He's a really good leader because he's doing this stuff. Whereas I get a little bit more of the, you know, and you gotta, you gotta be more, you know, you're too modest. So is that a hurdle? I feel like I, I don't know, I. We play the hand we have and it, you know, it has, it, it has. I feel like it works for me and I'm able to, you know, over time, you know, people understand that you know what you're doing and they do, you know, you earn that respect. But I feel like you have to be prepared to put the time in to have the calling card to say, I know what I'm doing. And just kind of ride out those moments when people are kind of looking at you like she doesn't know what she's talking about or why are we listening to her?

[40:10] Guest 2: No, I think that's beautiful. I think that as somebody that also has a collaborative leadership style, it can often be seen as you're being timid or you're not being assertive enough. But I think while you have to battle how it's perceived, it's really effective from an employee engagement perspective. Right. And it helps as a business owner because you don't know everything yet. Right. And so, but if you were to go in there and act like you did, you would shut down all of the employees. Right. And so by having that collaborative approach, you're able to really engage them in the process. So I, for me, my Chelsea's opinion is the more you can make a transaction feel like it's not happening to someone, instead that it's happening with them, the better you're going to be in general. And so I think that a collaborative

Guest 4: approach, all I'm saying is it's a trade off. You get a lot from it. And you have to manage this, you know, impression that people have that maybe you're not as experienced as you are because of whatever you're collaborating or asking questions or consulting about.

Guest 2: No. And I digging really, really deep in the recesses of my mind, like I kind of remember studying leadership style and culture and gender back in college and collaborate. A more collaborative approach is pretty common for females, I believe, and in collectivistic cultures in the United States is a, is a more individualistic society, as I'm sure we are all aware. So in closing, any. Anyone that's watching this, whether they're female or male or anyone kind of thinking about buying a business. Right. What advice would you give someone that's considering acquisition entrepreneurship? Let's start with.

[42:02] Guest 4: Okay, well, I'll just kind of continue on the theme that I was just talking about. So I would say my biggest piece of advice that I would give myself, my younger self, my current self, and others is don't be intimidated by the fact that you don't have all the skills to do all the phases of all the things in the search, acquisition, growth, operational phase. Again, I think there's lots of research that women only apply for jobs if they have 100% of the qualifications or think they have 100% of the qualifications, whereas I'm going to have the statistic wrong. But men will apply if they have 60 or something like that, maybe even less And I kind of think that kind of is happening here. And it happened to me. And I. There's no excuse for me because I'm, like, experienced and old enough not to have been doing that. But even I was going, like, what would I be able to. How would I even be able to buy business? And, you know, I had done acquisitions as a lawyer, I had run a business, and even I was kind of going, well, I don't have 100% of the qualifications, which is true. But that's also true of everyone, and everyone who's been on Will's podcast or who's in the search community or who is, you know, doing go going through a more traditional path. So I. I feel like you need to be a learner and you need to be somebody who's prepared to fill in all the gaps that you. To recognize your gaps and. And fill in the gaps that. That you don't have. But it's not impossible to do. It's not something that you haven't done in your past. And I do feel like, again, I don't. I'm saying this totally anecdotally, but I feel like that might be a bit of a barrier for women getting into the search process. They feel like they need to be perfectly qualified and have an MBA and be at the exact right stage in their lives that they look like everybody else that's doing a search. And, you know, I would say I would encourage people not to do that. And I love hearing from Cassie and Morley and hearing about doing it at an earlier stage in life when, you know, when you cut, you know, when my kids were small, I was like, I was going to work. I was an income. I was not taking any risks. But I feel like, you know, be open to taking these steps or taking these risks. When you're at a life stage where you. You're where you're able to. To do it, that would be my advice.

Guest 2: I think that's really rich, right? I think that there's a challenge that all acquisition entrepreneurs come, at least the ones I talk to. And I swear I've probably talked to thousands at this point. This fear of not knowing everything, right? The biggest hurdle is like, well, I don't know how to read financial statements or I don't know how to conduct due diligence. And I always tell everybody, you don't have to get a team, right? Surround yourself with a good team and you'll be fine, right? As long as you believe that at the end of the day, you will be able to Figure things out in a business, go buy a business. Right. Morale. How about you?

[45:11] Guest 5: Yeah. I would just say if you want to be an entrepreneur, surround yourself with other entrepreneurs. And you know, it's what they say, like if you want to work out, hang out people that work out. If you want to eat well, you know, go to our people that eat well. If you want to be a badass boss lady, surround yourself with other badass boss ladies. And it's like not only do you then start to see the vision when you're seeing other women and other entrepreneurs doing it, but there's just this like osmosis, right. When you're around that energy and it becomes normalized and got that community to kind of to have around you where it doesn't become as scary anymore. And that was kind of the biggest thing that I did. I joined the board of a nonprofit that supports women of color, business owners and kind of watched people's journey. I joined a women's kind of digital or women's community and co working space that was targeted towards entrepreneurs. And so I was around them each day as they were working through their challenges. And I joined the acquisition lab where you've got constant communication with Chelsea. You said, I think it's 250, 300 other searchers that are doing the same thing. And kind of being in that it just, it becomes normal and that the doubt starts to kind of dissipate because that's kind of what your life that you're living at that point.

Guest 2: Yeah. I had a female member once say, why would anyone continue to get corporate jobs and, and battle the career ladder when you could buy your own business and take the career escalator? And I was like, I'm going to totally trademark that and steal it. She's like, oh, you should because it's true. Right. It's like as women we know. Right. Corporate America doesn't necessarily cater to us super well. And this is one way that you can take control over your path. And I think the imposter syndrome is real for everyone, male, female alike. I've seen it across the board. But there are things that you can do and it's everything you just said, Morley, to help yourself realize that you can do this. Right. Cassie, what would you share?

Guest 3: I loved Ann Morley's responses. Championing that forever, the leaning in and you know, get a tribe. While I think small business ownership is probably one of the most fulfilling paths I have yet to be on in my life, I also think it is the hardest part, most humbling most gritty thing I have ever done for the past year and a half. And I've got, I've got my tail kicked. So I do not want to stand up here thinking that I've got life figured out after a year and a half because I promise I don't. But I think the thing that stands out to me is two quick things is the ability to run your own race. So there's a lot of comparison that can happen on the acquisition atmosphere. And most of the acquisition people that I know are white males to Morley's point. And when I hear their numbers around, their profitability and their gross margins, it can start to feel like, ah, we're not there yet. But that's okay. You know, I'm a year and a half in, they're 10 years in or they have a different business model.

[48:34] Guest 2: It's.

Guest 3: It didn't come with land. Like there's this perspective of we're not doing enough. And as a competitive person, that can start to creep into that comparison. And so I think, number one, the ability to run your own race and be confident in that. And I think second is to build that tribe to Morley's point, to take it a step further of, of an industry that I was not aware of, fencing. I went to a, an association meeting down in New Orleans. It was the American Fence association. And I kind of spotted top operators that I wanted to know. And I said, hey, would you be interested in jumping on a zoom once a month and having an hour long chat around best practices? And I thought that the meeting would be mostly to benefit me, the newest one in the room. But actually what I found was that some of the older, more experienced operators have said what an amazing blessing this is because now we can hear from each other's perspective and it feels less lonely if somebody operating 10 years who by my sights has everything figured out and is running an amazing $10 million business, if he can say that to me, then I know we're all gleaning from it. And it's just amazing. The different backgrounds of acquisition versus they created their own business. It's just so yummy. And in addition to that, I will say I also have our own personal business coach, which I don't know if I'd still be upright had I not invested in that. Sincerely, huge on the peacefulness train.

Guest 2: I think that all of your journeys are beautiful. I think you're all at different stages. Cassie, what I take from yours, which I think is important in life in general, just if you want to talk about joy which apparently everyone's searching for their joy. It's comparing yourself against yourself. Right? Competition is like the thief of joy and so setting yourself goals based on your business's performance is the healthiest way to move forward and just keep getting better and better every year. I love what you're all doing. I hope that the people listening to your stories will see a little bit of themselves in you and get inspired to explore the possibility of owning a business as well. Not just for themselves but also for their communities. Right. There are so many small businesses that need to be transitioned to new owners and there are so many strong women in the community and strong men as well that need to take on that responsibility so that those communities can continue to be served. Thank you so much for your your time and your openness and your vulnerability. Thank you for will for allowing to host this. I think it's a topic that needs to be heard and so thank you.