Host: Today's story comes wonderfully full circle. Iris Levine had something of a rough upbringing in Nashville, Tennessee. When college application time came around, a teacher encouraged her to look further afield than the state schools she did and ended up at prestigious Tufts University in New England. She thought she'd probably never go back to Nashville. But about 10 years later, she she did. And today, not only does Iris live in her hometown, she bought a business there, a substantial one. The Porch Company is a 30 year old, $6 million a year design and build construction company. The kicker? Its offices are three minutes from where Iris grew up, so not yet 30. She is owner of a sizable business with deep roots in a strong brand in her native Nashville. Here she is, Iris Levine, owner of the Porch Company. Welcome to Acquiring Minds, a podcast about buying businesses. My name is Will Smith. Acquiring an existing business is an awesome opportunity for many entrepreneurs. And on this podcast I talk to the people who do it. An SBA loan broker, as opposed to a direct lender, doesn't work for a particular bank. Instead, the broker pairs you with the right SBA lender for your deal based on industry terms, risk thresholds, then helps you navigate the process better than many lenders themselves do. Matthias Smith of Pioneer Capital Advisory is just such a broker. Matthias worked at two of the country's top 10 SBA lenders. So he's been on the inside of the SBA process and knows well the pitfalls and hurdles and how to avoid them. He struck out on his own to laser focus on the ETA in search space. Our niche is his niche. You'll see Mathias at all the ETA conferences. He's closed over 30 search deals since starting Pioneer in May of 2022, including some acquiring Minds guests. To learn more and get in touch, go to PioneerCapitalAdvisory.com or click the link in the notes. Iris Levine, welcome to Acquiring Minds.

Guest: Thank you. Happy to be here and like I shared before, been listening for what feels like a long time, not super long, and learned a lot. So excited to chat.

Host: Awesome. Well, Iris, you were listening, I guess, during your search, which culminated in your acquisition of the Porch Company design and build firm that is older than you and is based in your native Nashville, which will be a big part of your story and motivation. So let's get into that story. Please start us off with some background on you, Iris.

[3:02] Guest: Yeah, thanks. So, born and raised like you mentioned, here in Nashville, I eventually made my way up to Boston where I went to school at Tufts. And I. I should this will probably come up but and we talked about in our pre call did not have the quintessential background and childhood that one would maybe have that's conducive to being where I am today. So was fortunate to you know, have, have some tough early, early learned lessons and a lot of people that believed in me. Some teacher that, that said hey maybe try going to school out of state scholarships can pay for college. And that landed me up in New England and around a lot of folks that were different from those that I had kind of grown up around graduated.

Host: Can you say more about that?

Guest: Yeah.

Host: What was childhood like?

Guest: Rough. I would say I grew up which again is kind of again this full, full story moment. Probably three minutes from where my office is currently. Not the place. You know, didn't learn how to ride a bike until I was fourth, fourth grade because we had tons of violence going on outside. Had parents that were divorced. Single mom, you know, up through college my mom passed away. So just I had a lot of privileges and I had a lot of tough things and probably more statistics that would say that I would be a statistic than BE 29 and owning a business

Host: and, and, and so a guidance counselor or someone said good for you to get out of town if you can sort of thing for college.

Guest: I had kind of always knew that I, I didn't, I thought I would never come back to Nashville quite frankly. I mean I have the most incredible support system and network. I just didn't really feel like there was much for me here and kind of always had this desire to live elsewhere, but also went to a school that it was one of the best schools in the state and had horrible high schools and had horrible guidance counseling. And so yeah, kind of the default was go to school in state because you can get scholarships and the in state scholarships. And I had one teacher that, you know, a lot of teachers that took a deep investment in me and one particular said hey, you know, you're really interested in econ and international relations. Have you heard about this place called Tufts? Had not, didn't visit any colleges before I got into them. And so if it hadn't been for him and other folks that just said, you know, put little bugs in my head of there's more and other things out there than just defaulting to, you know, going to the state school three hours away, you might, you would have gone to that might be worth looking into. And hey, also, by the way, most of the people there are really wealthy and their parents are paying for college and so there's more scholarships that the college can give that in addition to aid. So, yeah, that was, you know, some of the single best advice I could have ever asked for. And I also met my husband and, you know, like, there's so many things that came out of that other than just, you know, know, getting so Tufts

Host: was a good experience.

Guest: Yeah, yeah. Hands down, like, one of the best. Best decisions that I. I could have made and made without much information, but made it. And. And very, very grateful and not coming

[6:10] Host: from a wealthy background, how did you. How did you end up putting yourself through toughs, financially speaking, financial aid and

Guest: working three or four jobs at a time? And, you know, I had an aunt that gave me a little bit of support. But, yeah, I mean, I was. I was paying my rent, I was paying for groceries. I was, you know, tracking every penny. I don't think I went out to eat ever, until I started dating my husband and, you know, he would pay to go out to eat, and that was. That was it. And yeah, it was very much. I think in our pre call, you asked if I felt different or otherwise. And. And I guess there was a sense of that. Like, I knew that I didn't have the backgrounds of other folks. You know, I'm sitting next to the daughter of the CEO of PayPal. It's a private. Yeah. Like, multiple houses. And. And that's just normal. But I never felt other than. And, and honestly, I felt bad for some folks that, you know, were on their own for the first time, had no idea how to, you know, cook for themselves or clean or, you know, like, I. There was never. I don't really feel like I had a time where I felt other than. Or that I wasn't set up for success. Felt like I was being set up for more success in many ways than other folks because I was kind of already living in the real world versus this, you know, fake. Fake world that sometimes these elite colleges and backgrounds can. Can create and then a rude awakening when people actually graduate and do have to take care of themselves. So.

Host: Yeah. Or maybe they continue not having.

Guest: That's fair. You make a good point there. Or choose not to.

Host: Okay. All right, so. And you graduate early.

Guest: Yeah. So graduate early. Wanted to stop having to work three jobs just to pay the tuition and wanted to really make. Make money and just got to a point where I felt like I could learn things that weren't necessarily in college. I was. I was ready to be. Kind of love being around folks, still want to live on outside of campus with my friends, but also was ready to make Money and kind of go on to my next challenge. And that led me to a financial development program at a Fortune 1 company. And I.

Host: Before we get there, Iris.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: Just. I mean, this is all, I think, relevant to understanding who you are.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: The. How did you do what I assume was, you know, fairly rigorous, although the fancy schools maybe aren't as rigorous as. As their tuition would suggest.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: But let's assume it was rigorous. How did you do have a rigorous education or rigorous coursework and be working all these jobs and condense that all into three years? Like, did you have. Did you do a keg stand at any point, or was this just. Was this just.

Guest: Was there any fun?

Host: No. Yeah. Was there any fun, or were you just balls to the wall for three years to. Between work and study to get out in these three years?

[9:03] Guest: You know, I. That's a good. There. There were no keg stands. I could say that. But. But there was a lot of fun. I mean, I was really involved with our outdoor club. I was spending most weekends. I would go up to New Hampshire and spend time out outdoors. And I. I think folks are a lot more capable and can pack in a lot more than they likely end up doing. So. Yeah. Was I, like, a crazy partier? Absolutely not. But that's also just not who I am. But was there time for fun and things that really fulfilled me and building really strong relationships? Absolutely. Like, I was not. I was definitely not just straight from office to, you know, to school and back and to sleep.

Host: Yeah. Good.

Guest: And, you know, I. I was not a 4.0 student, but graduated pretty solid grades. And. And that was kind of the trade off. Like, could I been. Probably. Yes. Did I, at that point think that that mattered? It was all balance. Like, where. Where do I put my energy?

Host: Yeah.

Guest: And came out on the other end.

Host: That very. That very theme is one that will play a role.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: The decision that we're here to discuss. Super. All right. Okay. So carry on, please, with what you did after these three years of Tufts.

Guest: Yeah. So Tufts Liberal arts doesn't have a business degree or component. And so that was kind of played into my decision. There was an aspect of, I want to make a solid amount of money, and I also want to continue learning and do something that maybe I wasn't exposed to. And that led me to the, you know, finance world very quickly. I say quickly. It took a couple years, but after a couple years, decided bureaucracy and, you know, large companies where you have to wait two years just to get a promotion because the box of Having been enrolled for two years has to be checked was not for me. And set my sights kind of on meandering my way to high growth startups, which I think had always been in my head, is something I would be interested in in terms of the challenge and the pace and the rigor. And so moved down to Nashville, which was home for me, but. But new for my now husband from New England. And that was. Right.

Host: And Iris, why back to Nashville? When you, when you left Nashville, you thought you'd never go back?

Guest: That's a great question. So, I mean, at that point, we'd been in Boston seven years and we kind of just knew we wanted to change. We talked about Seattle, where we had a lot of friends. Denver, we had a lot of friends. And Nashville was kind of the other contender at that point. My family, my cousins, who I'd become very close with, they were down here with their partner starting family, and we had spent a decent amount of time visiting. And the sentiment of this place has nothing for me. I mean, Asheville changed a lot. And I saw a different city and realized that, you know, it's not the other. The grass is not always greener. There are things I loved about living in Asheville and it was, it was just home. So cost of living was certainly appealing, but mostly it was, it was family and friends and thinking about, okay, if we want to, you know, buy a house and maybe have a family, where do we really want to set down roots? And all the other cities in many regards, felt transient and, and kind of lacked those roots and community that we really wanted. And Nashville had that. Where I've friends and family, I know will will not leave and we'll always be here. And so that was really, really appealing.

[12:22] Host: Well, and it also happened to be a. Well, I guess this was before Nashville became Austin 2.0 or you know, the next hot place that everyone wants.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, probably right before that. Although, I mean, it had been growing every year I came back after graduating high school, it was completely different city and still felt that way. So.

Host: So what year was it that you moved back?

Guest: 2020. Literally a week, two weeks before the pandemic is when we moved back. So four, four, five years ago. Yeah.

Host: Okay, so you move back just before the pandemic, just in time. And which I guess is actually a happy, happy timing because otherwise you would have been big.

Guest: Yeah. Yard and family and not being in a 400 square foot apartment.

Host: Yeah, right, right, exactly. And start working in tech. So what do you find in your tech stint?

Guest: Yeah, so really enjoyed it. I mean I loved working with the people that I was working with. I loved waking up and you know, working on 10 different things and they're always being kind of another problem to solve and just feeling. And I was working at earlier stage high growth startups. There was never, never felt like I was stuck to kind of a rigorous system of I have to check this box to go here. And to do that as if you see a problem and you want to take initiative to fix it, that's probably going to be accepted and rewarded. And that was really gratifying to me and really just kind of struck a chord with how I operate. And so that spent a stint in two different pet companies, both in healthcare care and then construction technology. And that brought me to I guess late fall, early winter of 2023. You know, we had lots of layoffs and it went from kind of the heyday and lots of fun where you're working with your best friends to just everyone kind of on edge at all times. And that combined with seeing and I think I mentioned this as well on a pre call increasingly I had my cousins are kind of life stage ahead of us, having kids and seeing kind of the decisions that they were making in terms of careers and balancing that with family and my husband. I are very fortunate to be very involved in their lives and the little lives and be able to see what that looks like. And yeah, had kind of this reckoning internally of I don't think I can do this forever. I've always wanted to be my own boss in some capacity and kind of control my own destiny and what does that look like? And maybe now is the time and, and started just deeply exploring do I want to start my own tech company? Do I want to be a consultant? And then enter the third factor which was my cousins. I think it was my cousins at some point introduced this concept of, you know, you care a lot about Nashville. It's a, you know, deeply embedded in you. Could there be a business that already exists that you would go run and. And that sent me into the deep rabbit hole and kind of immediately was like, that's it. Like that is what I'm going to do. I think I probably spent a month or two really like deep diving before I even said anything to my husband because I was like, I need to fully understand this before I try to explain it to him because it's kind of a wild concept and I'm generally an internal kind of processor. And so I wanted to.

[15:34] Host: I've done that strategizing in my relationship

Guest: and not even like strategize. I knew the second I said I wanted to do this, you'd be like, all right, sounds good. But I also was like, I don't even understand this yet, you know, truly. And I like literally have the Notebook here where in in November and December I was have Acquiring Minds episode, blah, blah, blah, you know, who was the guest? Where do they live? What's their story?

Host: Amazing.

Guest: And just like deep studying before I could even explain to anyone else. Yeah, I got to know what an LOI was in November, December. So I'm going to explain that to to someone else and make it make sense. So.

Host: And so you were exposed to ETA because somebody had somebody in your network. You're. You think it was your cousin kind of said as a brainstorm kind of randomly, maybe you could run a business here locally, but not because they knew what quote unquote ETA was.

Guest: So. So then you did so my one of my cousins is in small business lending, but basically lends when the SBA frequently can't lend. It's technically a nonprofit, but he's been in lending for a while, so he's exposed to this. He's plugged into all the SBA lenders and folks. And then my other cousin, he actually had a friend that was working at a painting company that was given the offer to buy it, and he was an investor in that. Did he know what ETA was or that term? No, but they were operating in that without really knowing, you know, the buzzwords and terms. Sure. So they were definitely kind of first exposure. Without explicitly saying, this is eta.

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[18:33] Guest: Yeah, well, I think the first.

Host: Because you. It sounds like you considered starting a business, Starting a tech startup.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: And now buying a business. So these are not light lifts either. Yeah, but they have more flexibility is probably where you're going, right?

Guest: Yes, I think it was the control and the flexibility. And it was, you know, one set of cousins where, like, both. Both women ended up leaving their jobs. One went to consulting, and both of them, you know, like, one was a principal and started being a principal at. I don't even know, younger than I was 27, you know, highly successful in her world and another in sales. And they both made the decision to leave after having kids because they just felt it wasn't tenable to do both. And. And then that combined with seeing folks in. At the company. I was at some of the most talented individuals and women that I worked with, and there weren't that many women to begin with, and they would reach kind of that stage, and we would have these, like, long conversations walking around the outside of the building about how they just felt like they cannot do both and they're not in an environment to do both and just like, kind of like tugs at your gut. Like, that sucks. Like, you know, it shouldn't be one or the other and feeling like it can be both. Like, I can work hard and, you know, pour myself into work, and there are ways that that can be done and also, you know, have kids and have flexibility and of course, there's always a balance to things, but just felt like being my own boss would. Would provide a lot more flexibility than. Than not. And just wanting to set myself up to hopefully be able to have that balance and make those decisions for myself versus have someone else make them for me.

Host: Well, Iris, you could really. You could emerge as a real case study and a real. And a real beacon for women who have to struggle with the same. Behind you, who are struggling with the same kind of set of decisions.

Guest: Yeah. And you see a lot of men. I mean, like, I. You hear it on. I feel like more than not on your podcast that they made this decision because, you know, creating a life for their family and the balance. And I'm fortunate enough that my husband and I had this front row seat and were able to kind of talk through and think through what we wanted our life to look like before we entered that phase.

Host: Yeah.

Guest: So definitely grateful to have kind of the exposure in that sense.

Host: Well, certainly flexibility and control of one's destiny, et cetera, is a theme that comes up in probably every story.

[21:02] Guest: Yeah.

Host: Still, like it or not, the. The child rearing falls more heavily on women than on men. So it's, it's a different calculation for, for you all.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: Okay, so down the rabbit hole you go just shy of a year ago. So this is November, December of 2023.

Guest: Yep.

Host: What does your search. How does it start to take shape?

Guest: Yeah, so initially it was just talking to anyone that had a heartbeat, that knew what ETA was basically and through network and listening to podcasts and you know, there were times I had cold, cold outreach from folks that have been on the podcast, as I mentioned, would talk to one person in Nashville is really just. It's just a. It's a bigger, you know, we're a growing city but small town feel and you talk to one person and they refer you to five more people and those five people refer you back out to, you know, you and it's. Everyone is. There's this camaraderie and support that maybe. I think it is generally an eta and I think it's even higher in Nashville. Only experience in here, but it feels that way. Yeah. Where folks are just willing to do whatever they can to help you and really be there for you. So. Yeah, about, you know, I kind of set my sights on New Year. I wanted to really kick things off and that's started by talking to brokers. I set my criteria and you know, I read the build, the buy them build and you know, followed the steps and met with the brokers and you know, I was really just, I hate to say guessing on it at every step, but kind of, you know, I was following a bit of a rubric, but I didn't know what I was doing. So just kind of take one step in front of the other and see what sticks and connected with one broker in probably mid February. So, you know, a few weeks into my full time search and he said, hey, I think I might have a good fit to you. For you, it's a woman owned construction business and outdoor living.

Host: Iris, before. Before we hear about the porch company.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: Can you give us some. A sense of what your resources, financial resources were or. Or that? Well, yes, that, but also. So kind of size of business you were targeting. Was it as big as possible or was it. Yeah, the typical kind of 750sd and above or not or what?

Guest: Yeah, yeah. So I'll start with my criteria, then go to financial resources. So I had set my criteria as non retail, non restaurants, pretty standard. Had to be in the Nashville area. And I think the emails that I sent out were something like 400 SD to a million of SD, thinking there's no way in heck that I'm going to find $1 million. Another thing that was really important to me is if at all possible, I wanted full ownership. And that was kind of coming from tech background and seeing what happens when you have a board and just wanting to avoid that, quite frankly and really, truly have the full control.

Host: So, so no investors for your equity.

[24:00] Guest: I was hoping, I was hoping to have no investors. Again, Nashville fortunate that basically everyone I talked to said let me know if you, if you want investors. And I said thank you kindly. Hopefully I don't, but I'll let you know if I do. And yeah, so, and then in terms of financial resources, I, I more or less was thinking I would be, it would be somewhere in the a hundred thousand to two hundred thousand that we would end up putting in and kind of through a combination of things, I had, I had fortunate. We were fortunate to be making more than we ever spend in Nashville. So some of that was just savings. We had investments, didn't really want to have to pull from those. Also we're very fortunate that we bought in 2020 our house. And so I can get to this later. But we ended up actually tapping into our HELOC for part of it so we could keep some cash reserves and not have to touch any of our investments with kind of the, the knowledge that we'd likely be able to more or less pay that off pretty quickly. So and then, and then the other piece which is worth mentioning, my husband had a full time job and we can way more than live on his, you know, salary. And so that was, I knew I was going to feel not great just internally if I wasn't making money in a few months because that's just, you know, ingrained in me is wanting to be able to make money and contribute. But in theory had, could, could survive for a very long time and then some without needing to bring in dollars because my husband was, was still working.

Host: So the, the famed spouse funded search.

Guest: Yes, yes.

Host: But Iris, just to be clear, on the far end of your criteria spectrum, $1 million of SDE, that is a business that would trade for 4 to 5 million and require, you know, half a million to a million down payment. So if you, if you, if you were fortunate enough to find such a business that was going to require investors or. Or was that something that you could manage?

Guest: I didn't want. No, that would, I don't think we would have like drained our investments and so that would have. That would have been beyond what we could have tapped into or would have want to. Tapped into. So it wasn't that I was closed off to that, to the investor piece. It was that I had a desire to go without it. And the spoiler alert is that I did end up with a business that size and didn't have to take on investors. So they do do exist out there.

Host: Yeah. Well, great teaser. Can't wait to hear how you pulled it off. Now, tell me about this mastermind group.

Guest: Yes.

Host: This is a big part of your search.

Guest: Yes. So I. Pretty early on you see all the. And you hear acquiring minds, the lab, and there are all these different resources that I think can be great for folks and I'm glad that they exist. Pretty scrappy person. And just like it doesn't sit well with me to be spending 5, 8, $10,000 to learn how to do this when I found so early that folks are just super supportive. But the thing that I did feel like I was missing was people to go along the journey with. So I had plenty of people that had been there done that could help me along, but not necessarily people that were actively searching at the same time. And just no one really understands like if they're not doing it, they don't understand what you're going through. So just posted on Search Funder kind of copied a individual that I connected with that had done that and said, hey, looking for folks that want to meet every other week. Got together a group of eight individuals and we met every other week about everything, you know, texting and.

[27:36] Host: Met by zoom.

Guest: Met by zoom. Yes. All over the country, very intentionally different geographies and different industries just so that we weren't overlapping with search criteria.

Host: And these eight people. Did you filter anybody? Like, I assume in a mastermind like that you kind of want people who are serious who are really on this path.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: Did you filter for that or say are not science?

Guest: Yeah, when I, like when people message me, I would, you know, and I had one other individual that I connected with. I was kind of helping run this, this process. It was like two days. But yeah, they would. You'd ask a couple of questions of what are your criteria? You know, what traction have you gotten so far? How long have you been searching? And you know, you could tell the folks that provided really thoughtful, kind of Responses and those that didn't. And you know, it was just a. We didn't want to over engineer and went with our gut and ended up with a fantastic group of eight folks. I think we have four out of eight since we started that. We started that in February, I think have closed a business, so with a couple. Couple on our heels to close. So it's been incredible. And we still meet now as part operator, part search group. And it's been one of the, one of the best things that we. That I did and it was free. So. So how do you recommend others to do that?

Host: So to be clear, you put together this Mastermind, you found the people on Search Funder.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: You did do some, some filtering for people who seemed serious in their search. You ended up with a group of eight, including you. So you plus seven.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: And four. And this was in February. Ish. Four of those people have already closed and another couple look like they're gonna close.

Guest: Yep, yeah, yeah.

Host: And I'm gonna be speaking with a couple of these people. Thank you for the interest.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, yep, yep.

Host: That's incredible. Now, do you think that the. This Mastermind peer group was a contributor to everybody's success or were these all just such serious people that they would have made it happen for themselves anyway? Is there a correlation or just coincidence?

Guest: That's a good question. I think there's a correlation. I don't think it's coincidence. I think there's. I'm a big believer in kind of networks and support and that you go. What's the phrase? You can go further, faster. Yeah, something about that.

Host: Yeah. Further. What is it? Further together, faster alone.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, something like that. And yeah, I mean, there's just something to be said about having that one question late at night and being like, I don't have anyone around me that can answer this and maybe I can find it on Search Funder, but like I've seven other people that are in this that have issued, Lois. That have raised from investors that have gone through the SBA lending process. You know, little things like what was. And we were all very transparent, like what rates are you getting from the sba, what terms for investments, who are you working with, a lawyer or Q of E, and how much are they charging? And who did you like that you worked with? Just there's like a million question that questions that come up and to have a group that was there basically all hours, just humbly and yeah, just there to help and support and really cheering folks on with no competition. And it Was a pretty magical thing. And I don't think it's unrepeatable. I think it's accessible to all. There are plenty of people that are smart and are hungry and willing to do this that also want to help contribute to other success.

[31:02] Host: And confirming format was zoom meetings once a week, once every two weeks. And then. And then active WhatsApp.

Guest: Yeah, and then an active WhatsApp meetings every other week. And then had just text group and that was it. Nothing fancy.

Host: Thank you. Now back to the porch company. What did you. What did you find in this? How. Remind us how you found it and then what? Tell us about it.

Guest: Yeah. So it was a local broker, one of the ones actually that I had reached out to, had kind of radio silence and had, I don't want to say written off, but I was like, I might never hear from him. That's fine. I don't know exactly which brokers are truly active and have deals and which aren't. No one ever does fully. And kind of out of the blue, maybe two or three weeks after I'd reached out to him and reached out to him again, he picked up the phone and texted me and we got on a call and he introduced me to this business. Really only shared that it was a outdoor construction or he says outdoor living business is how he maybe framed it. So I didn't know his construction. Didn't really know much beyond that. And I think maybe on that call he shared that it was woman owned, which. Which piqued my interest. And then from there looked at the sim and at that point I looked at like, I mean, I don't think I looked at more than four or five sims, quite honestly, maybe less than that. There was not tons of deal flow in Nashville and. And it was like kind of a dead period in the year. People hadn't. Some people hadn't filed taxes. Yeah, it's just a tough time to like start a search. And from others, I. My understanding is that deal flow is just slow. He had not listed this at all. He. He didn't want to list it. He wanted to come direct to folks that he had kind of vetted. And so, yes, I was fortunate enough that I was one of the individuals that he shared it with, saw the sim.

Host: Iris. Why. Why the fact that it was woman owned, did that peak your interest?

Guest: I mean, I think one of the things that I was nervous about maybe is not the word, but aware that could be a challenge was I knew that a lot of these me. There's a lot of men Male business owners and I just kind of had the sense that like sitting across from a male while I can deliver. Yeah I can, I can establish relationships pretty well with a lot of people. We're not going to be going out for casual beers. Like there's just, there's a certain level where I didn't feel like. I felt like I would maybe be able to connect deeper with a woman owned business than non and I guess going into my search anticipated that I would be buying a business from that wasn't woman owned. So when there was a woman owned business that's pretty cool and pretty cool that it's been 30 years women owned and in an industry that's typically not run by women and that's you know I've been in a lot of spaces for a long time that are male dominated so just kind of felt like it fit in many ways.

[33:50] Host: Excellent.

Guest: Was not a criteria by any means but definitely piqued my interest more about the business.

Host: The bullet points, age, size, employees, what it, what specifically it builds, designs and builds. We can, we can guess by the name but tell us anyway.

Guest: No no shock. They build porches. 30 plus year old business. Older, older than I am which was pretty cool. And yeah they taught themselves as a design and build construction firm. So folks come into the showroom with an idea and we help them design kind of their dream outdoor living space being porches and bring that to life. Company size about I think it was about 20 employees when I first started talking with the sellers. And then in terms of size of business over 6 million and in revenue literally just doing porches.

Host: Wow. And okay so. And can you say anything about margins or profitability on that 6 million?

Guest: What I'll say is that it was at the upper end of what I was looking for for, for SD and it is also definitely above average margins for the industry. So very similar to I know we, we talked about but the snow Stoneman and Alan Lockridge very similar in terms of business size and profitability and whatnot.

Host: Alan Lockridge so Stoneman north in North Carolina. That episode aired probably 6ish months ago.

Guest: So he similar business that episode played. Talk about kind of serendip moments. That episode came on literally the morning that I was planning to draft an loi very quickly reached out to him, asked if I could touch base to get a sense of multiple etc. Nanny lessons learned and we were on the phone two days later I think and now have monthly, monthly calls and are you know kind of connected as, as owners which has been really fun, but very similar business and dynamic.

Host: Allen, that was a great interview. Alan's a great guy. One of the things we'll. We'll. We'll start poking at the business here and, and to. To do that. The. One of the things I recall from Alan's business is that. So, Alan. So the stone man is. Is sort of backyard stonework, masonry, patios.

[36:14] Guest: Yep.

Host: Hardscapes.

Guest: Thank you.

Host: And. But the, the way the business is structured is that I think he only has like 10 employees.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: So office admin designers. But the actual masonry work is done by a handful of subs that he works with, which is great because it means all those folks aren't on payroll. So in tight times, he's not having to, you know, support a big step.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: How did that, how did that piece. The kind of your, your construction folks, do they work for you or do they work for the porch company or are they subs?

Guest: Yep. So that's the one. I would say one of the big differences is we have in house carpenters and that's our bread and butter being carpentry and building porches that are very high end is a little different than stonework. And so. Yeah.

Host: What do you mean by that? It requires higher skilled.

Guest: Yeah, I don't want to say higher skilled because masonry requires high skill. But there's difference in that. There's. There is a certain level of higher skilled and intricacy to the, to carpentry versus you can sub out crews that are laying stone a little more functionally and you know, you're not going to see the errors quite as much.

Host: Yeah, yeah.

Guest: And, and in terms of like pure liability, which I know they build structures as well, but we are building structures with roofs on them. And so, you know, we, we go through all the, all the permitting you could ever imagine we go through. And some of that the, and the business has made the decision to have in house carpenters to really control that piece of the business. And over time they've figured out very specific ways to build the porches, which is boring to everyone else. But it's interesting to me in terms of, you know, our columns are hollow and we make them so that you can run electricity through and, you know, slight slope to the porch, which most people don't do, to drain water off. And just everything has been is designed and done very intentionally. So it's very difficult to just bring in a framing crew and say put up these four walls and have it turn out the way that we have our porches turn out and have them standing 30 plus years later. It's something that we do supplement, cruise a little bit and sub out the other trades and it's something that maybe we'll do but just has not been historically what we've relied on.

Host: Yeah, yeah. So. So the Porch company has really developed a sort of proprietary product over the years.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: And process and. And in a situation like that, quality control becomes even more kind of. Not to say that companies using subs aren't doing their own quality control. Of course they are. But for you, you really want to just be on top of that and have those people in house.

Guest: Yep.

Host: Okay. And so. Okay, so now the obvious question, always with a construction company, you know, where, you know, first question out of my mouth.

[39:03] Guest: Yeah.

Host: Talk to me about the quality of revenue as you perceived it. Cyclicality. Notorious cyclicality.

Guest: Yeah. So fortunate that there is. I mean, I stare at those numbers. There really is no cyclicality. And hold on, hold. There's so, so let me get into that in terms of revenue coming in. So. And all we are living that currently and I say all this with a grain of salt of talk to me in a year or two because I'm a few months into actually owning the business. But I feel pretty confident that what I see and know and have felt is going to be kind of what sustains. And the numbers are true. All that to say we're in Nashville so we can build year round. So that is a huge aspect. Not the same as if we were in New England. There would be massive cyclicality. We generally have a two to four month lead time. So for example, right now we're at the end of September and we are booked through February and March until we're even starting the next porch. So typically we see, or at least from what I understand and I've seen leads sometimes slow down in the November, December timeframe. But if someone comes to us in November, December, we're probably not starting their porch until the spring anyways. So we kind of have a little bit of protection from that cyclicality.

Host: Your pipeline is so deep that in tighter times the pipeline might shorten, but it's still enough pipeline that you don't actually feel it in terms of revenue.

Guest: And they've had, they've had like, I know that they've had times where they've been like, okay, we don't have that two months. Like that's stressful. What are, what are we going to do? So it's not to say it never happens, but the business has sustained for over 30 years. And based on, you know, what it ended up selling for and a number of like our, the business could really, really, you know, almost crash by 75% and we would still be able to cover debt. Expenses would be another thing. But, you know, we, we have a lot of, kind of a large safety net that other businesses that are trading a lot higher don't necessarily have that aren't project based.

Host: And what other risks did you see in the business downside here?

Guest: Yeah, I think, I mean you, you gotta keep feeding the beast. That, I mean that was the, the fact that it was product based was something that I knew was not, you know, really nice to wake them. Just know what you're gonna have in revenue six months from now. And so I knew that that was, that was a piece that I would kind of always navigate with. I knew talent and like both retaining and getting talent in terms of especially the trades is just difficult. It's difficult for everyone. And then, you know, I knew that I didn't have a construction background. Like I consider myself a handy person, but I just knew there was a lot of stuff that I didn't know. And so I needed to feel really confident that there was a team in place that could help me get there and could stand on their own two feet. And sellers that were going to be with me every step of the way to kind of catch me as I fall because they've learned this over 30 years. That's actually something in our first seller meeting that I, you know, said to the seller, I don't, I'm not, I don't have a background in construction. So if that's what you're looking for, a need, like, I'm probably not your person. Um, and she said, well, you know, when I asked you what you were good at a few minutes ago, you said, and what you like to do, you said, problem solving. And that's really. All this is, and that's all construction is. And she actually left her job at IBM in the 90s to start a construction company. So there was some similarities there in terms of her path and that I think she saw, you know, it's okay if you don't have the construction. You have the tenacity and the grit and you know, figure it out mindset. So you'll be all right, probably. Which made me just feel, yeah, feel okay about those, those downsides, so to speak.

[42:49] Host: The fact that this is in, you know, tied to the kind of residential improvement market certainly would. Must be benefiting from the growth in Nashville.

Guest: Yes.

Host: So those numbers that you cited, the $6 million a year, are those. How. How much. How many years of history did you get a chance to look at? How long has it been doing revenue like that?

Guest: How long has it been revenue like that? I mean, it's been a steady increase basically since they started the business. But it really definitely hit those, like, higher 4 or $5 million right before. And then around Covid and then has sustained and slightly grown. And so those were, you know, reassuring to me that that could be maintained. And again, yeah, if it couldn't be maintained and it dropped by a million, two million, we would still be way more than, you know. Okay. Obviously that's not the ideal, but the downside was not, you know, if we dropped in revenue, it wasn't going to be, you know, the business has to shutter its doors because we had enough of a buffer.

Host: And. And so it got a bit of a boost from COVID But I would imagine a business like this. We talked about this with Alan and any. As we all know, everybody dumped a lot of money into their homes during COVID So you would think that there would be not just a nice Covid bump in this business, but a Covid surge. But it doesn't sound like. It sounds like it was a little bit more gradual. Maybe it's come back a little bit. But it wasn't actually the. It wasn't. It wasn't such a kind of a skewed. A skewed data point as it is in other businesses.

Guest: So I would say they had a surge in terms of inbounds, and that's like their lead time got up to. I don't want to say it was like eight to 10, maybe even 12 months. So the surge was. At a certain point, the team could only do so much, especially within house crews. And so they kind of were at this, like, equilibrium. And so where the surge came in was not necessarily this massive spike to revenue, Although there was an increase in revenue, it was a massive spike to lead time. And they didn't crazy grow. You know, they very. I think intentionally, they're generally conservative by nature. They could have poured fuel on the fire and said, let's put pull in a ton of crews and let's subcontract and let's do this and that so that we can feed this demand. They really focused on doing what they do well and continuing to do it and not majorly changing how they operated. So, yeah, they got. They got a bump, but they didn't. It wasn't like a skyrocket and A crash down.

[45:16] Host: Well, how prudent of them in retrospect.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, great. It's like they've been doing it for 25 years or so at that point. You know, see a few things.

Host: You know that one of the most common levers to pull in a target acquisition is technology updating the systems of a business that may still be running off a spreadsheet or even pen and paper. But tech is complicated with tons of solutions out there. So choosing the right cloud platform, CRM, telephony, compliance and cybersecurity, not to mention implementing all that, is a job in itself. Acquiring Minds Guest Nick Akers knows this firsthand. As a former searcher who now owns Inzo Technologies, Nick has seen the tech challenges searchers face when acquiring businesses. His team at Inzo regularly works with searchers and their acquisitions, offering a complimentary IT audit of the target company. Nick takes a personal interest in all their searcher clients, drawing from his own experience in the search phase. Inzo dates back to 1989. So this is a company that has managed the tech for hundreds of small businesses over decades. And one last thing, no long term contracts with Enzo, a big differentiator. Check out enzotechnologies.com I N Z O or email Nick directly@nickzotechnologies.com and don't forget to tell them you're a searcher. Going back to the size of this business. So I think $6 million a year for a company that builds porches seems like a lot Surprised you probably surprise, surprise me and probably surprise the audience. That's great. How many porches a year is that? In other words, what's the kind of average cost per porch?

Guest: So average cost per porch generally is around, we'll call it average, around a hundred thousand is pretty, pretty standard. Sometimes we're a little bit higher than that. Sometimes we're at 200,000.

Host: So it's 60. 60 projects a year?

Guest: Around 60 a year is a pretty good swag for that. Yep.

Host: Yeah. So you've got five going. Well, you've probably got many more going at any given time, but five concluding in five starting every month, more or less.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Host: Great. And then is this a business where, because it is at the front of a house and so inherently visual that there's this great marketing effect where, you know, people see the porch and then say to their neighbor, I want that porch and call you sort of thing and yeah. Is there signage? Like while they're building the porch, is there a nice big the porch company sign on the side of the, on the side of the whatever the construction site. What's marketing look like? Because I'm thinking between you and Alan's business, the similarities, Alan's probably like, man, I should have bought a front yard business, not a backyard business.

[48:12] Guest: So most of our work is in our like back porches. So we'll do front porches.

Host: Oh.

Guest: But in terms of, if you think of most people's yards where they're building like a, I mean we're building essentially living spaces where they're eating in there, they have a tv and most frequently that's on the back or the side of the house, of course. So we do dorch, I think front

Host: porch for some reason. But you're right, of course, course it's going to be.

Guest: So the front porches are generally the smaller projects and we don't like front porches.

Host: We like those big roof.

Guest: The founder really doesn't like front porches. And we deal with, I think most places deal with this, but there's setbacks and frequently you can't actually build onto the front of a house, but you can't go off to the side or the back.

Host: Yes.

Guest: It just depends. But that's frequently what we run into. But yeah. So in terms of marketing, I mean it is largely word of mouth referral. It's been around for 30 years, has really strong customer reviews on Google. That's one of the things when you ask what was appealing, you know, some of these company I googled and it's like 2.3 stars. I'm like, I'm not taking my business there, so I probably don't want to buy that business. Looked up the porch company. The first thing I saw was, you know, 50 plus reviews and almost a five star, you know, five star average like that speaks, you know, for itself. And, and hard to find a person in Nashville that doesn't either have a porch company porch or know someone that has a porch company Porch. I didn't find this out until after. Yeah. Obviously I couldn't tell even, you know, my aunt, my family, what the company was. And I found out that the porch that I spent nearly all of COVID on which my aunt's porch was built by the porch company like 15 or 20 years ago.

Host: No way. That's so great.

Guest: And you just. As soon as, you know, I was able to talk about what business. It was really hard to go through one conversation without someone saying having awareness of the porch company.

Host: Yeah.

Guest: So.

Host: Well, that, that must have kind of energized your, your Desire to do something that was really part of the fabric of Nashville.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: Not only that it's doing work in Nashville, but in fact, it's a brand and a product that so many people

Guest: have touched and creating really beautiful memories. You know, it's not like we were fixing your toilet. We're creating a space for you. We get emails all the time of folks, you know, one that just emailed in talking about how the grandkids fight over who gets to sleep on the porch when they come visit. And, you know, just really special. To be able to help build those memories in community or at least in some small way.

Host: Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Iris, what did you think of the value that you thought you could bring to the business?

Guest: Yeah.

Host: What did you. What did you see that as not knowing construction? You're gonna learn it. You're a problem solver, so you're gonna get in there and solve problems well, but any other business buyer fit here.

Guest: Yeah. I think one of the big things that the owners had realized that they just had no desire to do but was necessary was as, as one of my key leaders would say, bringing the business into this century. So. So nothing crazy, but just, you know, accounting systems. And how about we maybe stop project managing 60 projects on paper and email and text and have a project management software? These things that the team was really hungry for that the owners were aware that they were hungry for, but also aware that that was. They had no desire to. To be the ones shepherding into that stage. I was like, I can do. I can do software and technology and processes and systems all day regardless, like that. That I can do. And. And I can learn the construction aspect. So there's that piece. And then I think in general, just like some aspect of being ingrained in the community and being to kind of being able to carry on a lot of the legacy that the old owners had created. They have a profit sharing program. They're very well known in the community. They truly, like, they don't just say they put their people first. They truly put their people and the community first. And I knew that was something that I was able to carry on and they saw in me and that you're not going to get from, you know, no offense to the MBA students moving from, you know, Boston to buy a business, but that's just not there. And so I think that was a factor that kind of resonated on both ends.

[52:24] Host: Given that the business is 30 years old and already has such a strong brand in the community, what do you see the upside being Here if you were to think about this strictly from a financial perspective and a growth perspective,

Guest: I mean upside in terms of being able to grow it. They. They literally only do porches and like that has been a big part of their success. They do them really well and they do them to near perfection. But there are so many adjacent things when folks are looking to. And there's been such a push in the last few years of, you know, outdoor living spaces. If we even took a piece, a very small piece of the puzzle of hardscaping, for example, you know, Alan Lockard, great example of. And I think both of us have acknowledged we have same size businesses doing two separate things that are very adjacent and cohesive. And so where I'm sharing details about how we're building our porches and how we operate, I'm asking him how he's operating about, you know, in hardscaping. Is that what we're going to go to? I don't know. I don't know if I'll have a desire to grow beyond that because it's a really great, solid business that doesn't need to grow to continue being a very, you know, financially soluble venture personally and for the team. But there are certainly a lot of adjacent spaces that we could play in if we so choose to play in them. And we have that name and reputation that folks trust us to, to be able to, you know, maybe take some, I don't even want to say risk, but try some new things and see what kind of what we enjoy and what works and go from there. Only a couple of months in. So that's. We're still getting our feet under us, but. But there's definitely opportunity to, to grow and play. Play around with some things if we want to.

[54:00] Host: You say only a couple of months in, so. Well, I'm going to actually put a pin in the question. I want to, I want to understand what it is like now to get into a business, a construction business, not knowing anything about construction. We'll return to that. I just don't want to get too far away from the terms of the acquisition.

Guest: Yes.

Host: So can you talk about that? Because there was some, there was some good stuff in here.

Guest: Yes, yes. And I, I can't speak as fully transparently as I would like to be just in respect for the sellers, which I know we've talked about. But a high level, if you really want to dig into it and go to Alan Lockridge episode, his episode we had slightly higher SD and slightly lower multiple is what I can, can share and Then from. In terms of just what I myself contributed, we ended up putting in less than $150,000 into the deal to buy a business of that size. So we're able to get away with that. The 5% down payment with SBA, which. Which was. Can't complain about.

Host: And when I hear 5% SBA, I. I tend to think partial buyout. Do the sellers have. Retain any of the ownership of the business? So no. Full, full buy out.

Guest: And it's something worth noting that the SBA originally had told me when I we had the 10%, but I didn't want to. I wanted to reserve capital if I could. And they pushed back originally to the request for 5% and ultimately said, you know, this originally said, this is really for folks that are, you know, buying, you know, their employees, they're buying out the business. We had some back and forth. They had to, like, put it up a level to get approved, and it got approved. So I don't know that that's everyone's experience, but ultimately it. It worked out that way. So grateful to have a really killer lender that advocated for that. Lane Rhodes at Live Oak, if anyone's

Host: in the market, highly recommend Lane Rhodes at Live Oak. Yeah, well, we certainly know that name. The Live Oak name.

Guest: Yep.

Host: And so 5% of your own equity and sizable SBA loan, probably typical size and then the kind of typical structure from there on out.

Guest: Yep.

Host: The. You said you wanted to put in 5% as opposed to 10%, even when your lender's pushing you for it because you wanted to just have rainy day money in case. Personal rainy day money, just in general,

Guest: if you can put in less and feel confident that the business can pay it off, why not? And, and yeah, the way I position it to them was I want. I want to have capital that is available if I need to or want to infuse it. So it was a balance of that, but it was just from a financial standpoint, if you can put in less and feel confident in the debt coverage, why not? And our debt coverage was pretty stellar, so I felt really confident in that. That aspect of it.

Host: Well, really stellar debt coverage tends to mean that you got a really strong deal. Okay. Okay, great.

Guest: Which I will say people kind of, you know, poo poo the project base, but there are. I kind of put it into the bucket of do what other folks aren't willing to do. And there were aspects of, yes, it's project based, so you get a lower multiple. I will say the sellers really cared about who was taking on the business and I, I, my read was that it wasn't a financial gain thing for them. So that definitely played a part. And then the other piece is I had to get a contractor's license during diligence and there are, there are only so many buyers that have contractor's license or willing to in the span of two weeks study for eight hours worth of exams and just figure out the process when no one really knows how to get a license in Tennessee because it's Tennessee. And so I think in that sense it put me in a strong position and they recognize that aspect of transferability of the business.

[57:48] Host: Yeah, putting yourself through college in three years helps you, helps you hone those skills.

Guest: It was back to the cramming for a test. Husband joked it felt like we were back in college. Basically just didn't see me for two days, two weeks, whatever, just studying. But yeah, worth it.

Host: Do you think that the sellers liked that you were a woman?

Guest: I definitely don't think it hurt in terms of, I mean they again work with all males. I don't think that was a criteria for them by any means. But I, I do think there was some aspect of seeing themselves in me, I think and from having gotten to know them a little bit. Not a little bit, a lot bit since. So yeah, I think that helped but I don't think it necessarily would have been the defining oh, I'm choosing where we have to go with a woman or I'm going with her over him because she's a woman. I think it was first and foremost who do we think this business can be operated by? And yeah, it's nice. There's some continuity of a woman owned business. Actually had a buddy in Nashville who was, he also met with the sellers and he was searching and he left the seller meeting and he just said, you know, I don't know if it transfers well to a guy like going to be honest, I don't know if it transfers well to a guy. And I think there's something to be said about that.

Host: What do you think he meant?

Guest: I, I think he just meant in terms of 30 years of being run by women, the office staff that were women and the there there. When I talked through all the leaders and all the team members in the business, I was surprised. Even our carpenters, the number that said I came to work here because I like that it was woman owned or that that was a big part of them enjoying working in a construction business. There's this, I don't want to say softness but construction can be. Has kind of a wrap and how it operates. And I think again without fully stereotyping, there was some balance that was created by being woman owned. That didn't take away from it being tough work and it being construction, but just created a culture and dynamic that is pretty integral to the business. And who stayed? You know, we have employees that have been here for 10, 17 years. Not to say they would have left if a man bought the business, but yeah, it's kind of interwoven into the fabric of the business.

Host: Yeah, you've called yourself scrappy. Maybe, maybe, maybe a euphemism for frugal penny pinching. Yeah, yeah, there were other instances. There were other instances of this in your deal process.

[1:00:13] Guest: Yes, yes, yes. I assume what you're getting at is

Host: the Q of E decision.

Guest: Yeah, I, I mean I encourage others and the way I approached it was to treat my search like I was a CEO of my search business and kind of putting the training wheels of how I'll operate a real business which everything is trade offs of where you're going to put your capital and trusting your gut. But relying on the numbers and contentious in my mastermind group. But I actually opted not to do a Q of E and I'm not telling folks that they shouldn't do a Q of E. But I talk to enough folks and I mean when I say that the financials lined up to a penny with tax returns that the second that I asked for a document they would have it within minutes. And I'm talking Back to like 1993 and the owners being really interwoven into the community and my lender actually knew the owners and the owner's husband and there's all these things where it's like I understand the data and the numbers. I've had folks that have financial backgrounds even more so than me look at them and I feel pretty confident there's nothing I'm going to find out in the QV that I for $20,000 that I don't already know or that I'm not going to have to learn anyways in the business. So made that decision. So far everything has been true and we've been on target with profitability, etc. Again, not saying it's for everyone, but everyone's search is different. So you really have to make the decision that's right for yourself versus saying I'm going to follow this step one, step two, step three, step four, allocate this amount of money for this. Just every, every deal is different and that was a piece of my deal where I felt like it was the right decision. And I think so far so good.

Host: Great. Okay. Well, audience, many of you will have heard Justin Willis's story a few weeks prior to when. When this story with Iris is airing. Justin Willis bought a. Bought a construction business, didn't do a quality of earnings. There were multiple business, multiple problems with the business. So it's not to say necessarily that if he had done a Q of all would have been well, but he feels that it probably would have caught some significant amount of the problems in the business. So just hear Iris, everybody. No, really, I, I don't, I don't mean to take away just nine times

Guest: out of ten you should probably do

Host: a QV to balance the decision. Make sure everybody listen to this episode and then also listen to Justin Willis's episode just for two different perspectives on construction businesses that were bought without QBs.

Guest: And I'll be listening to that one as well. So I'm super excited to. I mean there's a lot to learn about success and even more probably to learn about failure.

Host: Yeah.

Guest: Perceived failure. So.

Host: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Any other vendors that you wanted to call. You said you'd wanted to call out vendors that you liked. Was it. Was it just Lane at Live from

Guest: Live Oak was by far the best decision in my entire deal process and would highly recommend her. She's pretty well known in Tennessee and just is a great resource. So. Highly recommend.

[1:03:11] Host: Okay, great. Circling back now to the transition. You're only two months in as you've said so. But how does it feel now to be in a construction business when not knowing anything about construction? Although you do know something about construction now because you got your contractor's license.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: So I guess you are a gc.

Guest: Yeah. Yeah. But.

Host: But what is that? What does that feel like at least? First impressions.

Guest: In many ways it feels natural. I like, I think it tees into a lot of things I do enjoy in terms of problem solving, hard work, just building beautiful things and connecting with kind of the outdoor environment. I certainly. There are so many things where I'm asking the dumb question in the room, but that's kind of my sweet spot is I love when I, I get really bored quickly. So if I just know what's going on, that's probably checking out pretty quickly. So the fact that everything is new to me and I'm having to figure everything out and then it's a give and take. Like I, I'm taking a lot from folks knowledge and experience on construction side But I have a lot to give in terms of, you know, creating systems and processes that are making the team's life easier. And so I think in that sense, it just felt really good, all things considered. Not that it's not hard, you know, like dealing with clients directly and being pulled into client, you know, when clients are, aren't happy, that happens once every 20 times. And then you have the five clients that are just. You can't talk to them without them showering your team in compliments like that makes it all worth it. So I, I wouldn't say it's easy and it's not for everyone, but for me, it's felt like a very natural fit in many ways.

Host: And you do feel like the value that you, that you predicted and hoped you'd bring to the business, you are in fact going to be able to do the. Yeah, leadership, but the, the systems, the bringing, bringing the business to the 21st century in terms of technology, et cetera, that all that, the promise of that is coming true.

Guest: Yeah. And I think a lot of that. I went into this expecting that we would hold on doing a lot of that for the first six months or so. And I mean, huge credit goes to the team where I said, okay, here's kind of some of the thoughts I have. Here's when we can do this. We can do this now or we can do this later. And resoundingly, they were like, if we're going to, let's just do it now. And so really in the first week, you know, my poor team. I say poor team, but it did make their lives easier. You know, ripping out new accounting system, implementing a project management software, new expense management. And they have just been absolute champs. The folks that my, the sellers thought maybe would leave in the transition just because they've been here for a long time, you know, they don't need to be working their office. Our incredible office manager and bookkeeper are here because they really love it and want to be here and thought maybe this would be the time that they kind of moved on. And they have just been absolutely incredible and excited and, you know, really. Yeah, way, way exceeded expectations and yeah, things are taking a lot less time and, and everyone's on the same page and can go to one place to get information and I mean, we have, like, scratched the surface and it has already felt like we're seeing improvement. So that's very gratifying.

[1:06:21] Host: And the. Obviously they're project managers. Maybe more than, more than one.

Guest: Yeah. Who.

Host: And so those are kind of the, the people Running really Running the construction sites.

Guest: Yep.

Host: How many project managers do you have?

Guest: So we have in terms of true, true project managers, four. And then we had two leaders coming into the business that kind of flex into project managers. And one tough decision going into the business was not to keep one of those on so not to bring them into the new business. So pretty much week and their second in the command was out that week and out the next week from a project management standpoint. So I really got thrown into it. I threw myself into it, I should say because that was a decision I made week one and week two and feel pretty confident. Yeah our team is. Is great and we have carpenters that kind of step up into that sphere as well. And yeah, it's. It's a pretty impressive group of people

Host: closing out just about the business here. Iris. The I just wonder. So for people looking at construction businesses and which are plentiful, those are. It's a. It's a very common type of business for sale. But as we talked about always talk about there they are at least superficially, maybe less appealing. You. You made this really great point that you know, go where others aren't because they are superficially less appealing, less competitive and maybe sell for lower multiples which. Which we like. I wonder if one of the criteria to like in a construction business. I'm also very ignorant about construction. So I may be. This may be totally off. Is like this specialization that you guys have and just porches and you've done so many porches and you probably internally maybe not. You said you have a showroom. So maybe there are kind of porch products, you know, a handful sitting on

Guest: our showroom right now. Yeah. Yeah.

Host: So you have a portfolio. So you guys are. Are actually. This is going to sound like I'm belittling the product. Product. I'm not. But you actually have widgets and your team is. Is. Is building the same widgets time and again with probably I'm sure some customizations.

Guest: Yeah.

Host: As opposed to every new project is kind of from scratch, designing from scratch sort of thing. Is am I getting at something? Is there something to that or am I stretching here?

Guest: Maybe I think like niches are great. So I think there's something to be said about that. I would say it's being in a niche is great where you have a really focused. This is what we do and we do it well. I mean we're not doing anything that other folks can't do. You know, like it's not that proprietary that you can't go out and build it the same way. But we do have the experience. It is a bespoke like everyone gets their own design. So it's not, it's really not even our simplest porches are not really rinse and repeat. So that that aspect I think makes that less so where it's not. We're just not like a volume crank it out every project. We really having to sit and think and plan and decide. And so that's a factor. But one thing that I would say in terms of looking at, if you are looking at construction, one really strong benefit, and this is similar to Allen, is we cash flow our projects. So it's residential, we take a deposit up front. And the way that the, the structure of the payments for the project pay for the, the project as it goes. Whereas in commercial or any other, even some residential construction, you are getting paid after or behind the expenses that you're having to pay out. So that, that is a piece that if I was buying another construction business, which I can't say I'm in the market, that's something I would look for is basically projects that cash flow themselves.

[1:10:06] Host: I'm so glad you brought that up. I had meant to ask about cash flow because that's another reason that construction can be notoriously difficult. You get paid in advance, essentially.

Guest: Yep. It's huge. And, and I was extremely anxious about working capital because I listened to your podcast and everyone has problems with working capital. And I mean that was one of the things where I was fortunate to get working capital at close from the sellers, from the loan and we have not touched that at all. And we've. So it's basically been icing on. On top of the money that we have been able to, to generate from profits. So I was maybe anxious about it for good reason because things can go wrong but have not had to tap into that whatsoever.

Host: Fantastic. Well, great call out the nature of the, the, the, the working capital in a construction business. Okay, well, let's start wrapping up. Iris. Let's. Let's. My last question for you will be tie this back now. You're only two months in, as we saying, but tie this back now to the initial decision to go this path and how you were in your W2 in a tech career and looking forward and the lack of flexibility, the having a family. Do you feel like two months in that this is actually delivering on what you hoped it would?

Guest: Without a doubt and then some. I mean I am, I, I consider myself generally a like happy person and that wasn't unhappy before But I just like feel like a new person in terms of level of happiness and fulfillment and just feeling like a level of settledness, which is crazy to say with you know, new business and a lot of, you know, change and newness that I've not felt in maybe ever just kind of conviction that this is it, this is the path that I was kind of meant to be on. And, and then there's been things even more than I could kind of have dreamed of in terms of positive aspects. And I think I mentioned this on our pre call but. And I think a lot of folks find this. I knew that the impact, it was going to feel impactful to be providing livelihoods for folks and, and when I say like this business is three minutes from the house that I was literally born in in a neighborhood that I couldn't go outside to play. Now I'm employing 23 people, all of which are making more than my mom ever made. Like that is just like I couldn't have dreamed it up if I tried. Yes, we're two months in and I know there'll be difficult times but I just have all the confidence in the world that we will figure it out and figure it out as a team. So not for everyone but was for me and for my husband and I and my family. So very happy is the summary.

[1:12:37] Host: And what about the flexibility piece? You're, you're probably up to your eyeballs in the transition now, but can you see a world in which you have the flexibility that you sought?

Guest: I mean I am working less when I was working at a tech startup easily, like no question about it. And that has been a shock to me. I think I expected that I was going to be working way more and I've not found that. And you know, folks go home at 5pm and yeah, I'll go home and I'll do some email and do some work but people leave at 5pm My cousin just had their third baby and I was able to leave in the middle of the day and go meet him when he came from the hospital and not feel stressed out about that. And I was able to be there, you know, by 5:30 to help watch them in the evenings while they were at the hospital. And you know, previously I was getting home at 7:30 or 8 and yeah, so have already seen that flexibility and can envision a world in which that is conducive to, you know, having a family and being able to work as well. Like I can bring my kid to work if I want to. Like, like I can make that decision if that's what I want to do. No one's telling me I have three months or two months and I need to return and, you know, bid farewell for 60 hours or 80 hours a week. So that's all things that I've been very happy to see kind of come into fruition in the short time.

Host: That's fantastic. Iris, anything we didn't hit on that you wanted to make sure to say, or have we got.

Guest: No, I think that covers that. I just highly encourage everyone. This is not right for everyone. It's not right for most people, probably 99.9% of the world. But if you're someone that feels like there's kind of something else out there for you and you maybe feel stuck or don't know what that is, you like solving problems and working hard and kind of creating your own destiny, I, I cannot not recommend this path more. So I'm a big, big proponent for the right person, I should say.

Host: Beautiful note to end on. And if people want to get in touch with you, Iris, questions, what have you, how do you like them to do that?

Guest: Yeah, more than happy to. I would say probably LinkedIn is the best one for me to be able to filter through, which is just Iris Levine. And I think I. I'm now associated with the Porch Company, so pretty simple, I think.

Host: Great. Well, we'll have a link to your LinkedIn there. Iris Levine, congratulations. Sounds like a really neat business and just a great story of you figuring out how you're going to get the balance and flexibility you want, your life for your family, and also kind of pour yourself back into your hometown. Pretty neat.

[1:15:11] Guest: Yeah. Thank you. And thank you again, because this is truly. I mean, you're the first thing that I recommend to folks when they're starting on this journey. And I think I've spent hundreds of hours and I, the mastermind group was a big proponent, but I very strongly believe that I wouldn't be here without having all the knowledge that other folks were generous enough to share and that you were able to kind of share with the world. So thank you for that.

Host: Well, thank you for now paying it back or paying it forward to hopefully,

Guest: hopefully in a small way I'll be able to.

Host: Yeah, it's great. Great interview. Thanks so much, Iris.

Guest: Awesome. Thank.

Host: You. Sa.