Host: Damon Clarson was a guest. Just over a year ago he acquired an insulation wholesale business. Well, late last year, Damon decided to take a job, returning to traditional W2 employment. Part of this decision was driven by his sales tanking in Q3 of last year. As the real estate market stalled out, Damon needed income to ensure he could continue servicing his SBA loan. Pretty scary. But part of it was also what Damon had learned about himself. Sales actually came back in Q4 and came back strong. So his business is healthy enough now that he could redevote himself to it full time and leave the W2. But over the course of 2022, Damon realized that he just didn't enjoy the lifestyle of the business that he'd acquired. He missed structure. He didn't like working from home all day. He was driving his wife crazy. So what's so interesting here is that Damon spent a lot of 2022 improving the business that he'd acquired and doing so successfully. You'll learn the many levers that he pulled, but he still ultimately decided that it wasn't for him. A decision I think you'll agree is both courageous and self aware. And I think this is one of the hazards of buying a business that hasn't been covered enough, including by this podcast. Put aside the fundamentals and financials of the business for a second. You also have to like it because imagine you buy a business, have a personal guarantee for a million $3 million, and realize on day 120 of the transition, I really don't like doing this. You can't just walk away at that point. So not liking it, not liking the day to day and is also a big risk. Fortunately for Damon, he's got his business essentially on autopilot, but I'm sure there are others out there not so lucky or competent. There's a lot to learn from this follow up with Damon Clarson, owner of Pacific Insulation Supply. Welcome to Acquiring Minds, a podcast about buying businesses. My name is Will Smith. Acquiring an existing business is an awesome opportunity for many entrepreneurs and on this podcast I talk to the people who do it. I want to share an update on the Acquisition Lab. As you know, the Lab is a highly vetted cohort based accelerator and community for people serious about buying a business. After going through the Lab's month long intensive, you have ongoing access to almost daily Q and A sessions with advisors, regular live deal reviews with Walker Deibel, author of Buy, then Build potential Deal team introductions and a very active slack group with other searchers on the path. Well, the update is that the Lab recently passed 60 businesses acquired and for well over $100 million in aggregate transaction value. Also, all members now enjoy lifetime access to the Lab because when you buy a business, it's often just the first of many and the Lab wants to support you in every deal, not just your first. Lastly, check out my recent interview with Shane Ursum, episode 105. Shane acquired a business with over $1 million in EBITDA in just six months, and he attributes a lot of his deal success to what he learned in the lab. Check out acquisitionlab.com or email the lab's director, Chelsea Wood. Chelseieve.com Damon Clarson welcome back to Acquiring Minds.

[3:39] Guest: Thanks Will. Glad to be here.

Host: Damon, we spoke a little over a year ago. You'd been looking for a business that was B2B that could be run remotely and a lot of opportunity for scale, and you found one that fit the bill in Pacific Insulation Supply, which is an online wholesaler of insulation. So it looked pretty optimistic when we spoke in. It was December 2021, but last year 2022 did get rocky at times. So I think it'll be really good for the audience to hear a story that isn't all, you know, rainbows and unicorns before we dive into it. Damon, give us a quick refresher for those who didn't hear episode one on the search. Why you chose this path and then on the business you bought specifically.

Guest: Yeah, so I had kind of been wanting to buy a business for many years. Most people that I know are business owners growing up, so it just kind of fit what I wanted to do. So I had been reaching out and looking to tons of deals, probably booked 40 or 50, working with brokers. And I never actually did my own proprietary search because I didn't really know that search was really a thing. And I think if I had known, I would have done things a lot differently. But luckily through a broker relationship, this business kind of fell into my lap. And yeah, it was a good fit. It was B2B. It was something that you could do remotely as well as very low. Yeah, Capex. So you know, we only sell insulation through other warehouses, so national suppliers and stuff that you kind of have to have an account to use. And so because of that, I'm mostly just a paper pusher. I advertise, I get an order and then I push that paper to the supplier who then fulfills it. So it ended up being a really good fit in that regard. But yeah, you're right, there's Definitely some Rocky moments in 2022.

Host: Okay, well, let. I guess let's start by hearing how reality met with your expectations. So these criteria that we keep talking about, low cap, like low carrying, no inventory, essentially, basically just kind of very low overhead, business scalability possibility, potential for scale, were those all things that ended up being accurate in your assessment or less so?

Guest: Yeah, I would say they're accurate. I definitely underestimated how difficult it is to scale a business. I think what I kind of envisioned was, you know, here are different product lines I could sell. All right, you're buying insulation. Let's sell drywall. I thought that would be a lot easier than it was. I also thought, like, oh, I'll just throw more money or I'll grow in another region that we're not really big in. And it's just not that simple to do. It took a lot of work to figure out exactly where to hone in the strategy. And I'd say now, knowing what I know, I could have saved myself a lot of advertising dollars.

[6:36] Host: And so that is something that we touched on a lot in your. In your first interview, which was like, you noticed and it. You were basically a month and a half into into owning the business when we talked and you'd notice that a lot of your customers were roofers. And so, you know, why not sell additional supplies to this roofing cohort that like roofer, like roofing specific supplies, stuff that roofers would need. Why did that end up not being as easy as kind of flipping a switch to an existing customer base?

Guest: The difficult thing about that is a lot of them had roofing suppliers. We are actually still selling roofing insulation. I haven't advertised it as much. It's usually just kind of on a as needed basis for recurring customers. So the plan is to really grow in that because I, I do believe that we can grow there because we have existing supplier relationships. What we did try to do was drywall. I ran this experiment for three to four months, and we never got a single drywall order because of some of the difficulties to starting a new account with these big suppliers. I had no volume discounts, right? So with insulation, I'm doing, know, millions of dollars worth of insulation sales with these different suppliers. And so they give me pretty good discounts, which helps me close the gap between some of the big box stores that people might be going to, because, like I mentioned, my customer is the contractor who has, you know, two to three crews, maybe even less. And so he's picking up stuff at Home Depot with A contractor's discount, and then we kind of swoop in and steer them our way, and we're a lot easier to work with. So, uh, selling drywall to them was difficult, starting from scratch, because we couldn't. We couldn't really compete price wise. And so I abandoned that mid December, decided that wasn't the route we were going to go, but what we were going to do was double down on insulation. We're going to sell more insulation nationwide, but most importantly, we're going to really spend our advertising money in the states that we know we can succeed in, which are California, Colorado and Texas and Washington. One challenge, actually that came up right after our interview was one of my suppliers in Washington state dropped us. And so now I had only one person, one company that could fulfill orders there, and they had very tight supply. And so Washington was a big state for us. And that completely withered up for about seven months. And then the summer came.

Host: Because your supply was cut off, not because demand wasn't there. So you just couldn't service orders.

[9:03] Guest: Yep. Couldn't service any orders. And so what I did, I waited seven months. There was a kind of a slowdown in building as interest rates came to a head and reached back out at a supplier and they were like, we'd be more than happy to take your orders again. And we're plumbing away nicely with them now. So.

Host: Okay, well, Damon, I got us into the weeds really quickly there, but let's step back out and give people a big picture of the last year. Start us with what was the size of the business, what was Pacific Installation doing revenue wise and cash flow wise when you bought it? And then kind of give us just like two sentences on what's happened over the course of this year.

Guest: Absolutely. So I bought it mostly off of 2018 and 2020 revenue, which was anywhere between 1.8 and $2.2 million and a net of around 350 to 400,000. 2021, there was a huge boom because of building and whatever else, and a huge customer that made it three and a half, $3.3 million business in terms of sales. And the net on that was just a shade below 600,000. So I bought it for 1.1 million, about 3x of normal revenue and about 2x of that boosted revenue. So.

Host: And that boosted revenue that was from one really big customer that even the seller at the time told you, like, enjoy this while you got it. But I'm not. I'm. I recognize that this could dry up at any moment. So I'M not even going to include it in. In the cash flow that we base the multiple on.

Guest: Absolutely. Yep. And so he was very upfront about that, so that was good. There were more difficulties that came up with that specific customer, which we can definitely dive into. It'll be interesting. I learned a lot about transitioning a business. I would say this for six months, but that's kind of the overview. And then ever since then, we kind of had a huge quarter one and then Q2, what we noticed was interest rates started to rise, gas prices, fuel prices went up. So our delivery costs went up, material costs went up, and we had a very, very dry June through September, which is usually the months that we sell the most. During that time I got really spooked and decided I wanted to go back to work so that I could put all the cash in the business and to pay for the loan. I did it. I got an SBA loan on it at about 85% LTV, so wanted to make sure I could keep making that payment. And so I went back to work.

Host: Went back to work, meeting, got a job, got a W2.

Guest: Got a W2. Yeah. And what I found was I actually managed the business more effectively doing that because I had more structure in my day. So that's kind of the year at a, at a glance Q4, we had a really good Q4. Things started to pick up again and right now business is actually booming, like pre interest rate stuff. So I'm very happy.

Host: Wow. Okay. And so all like taking into account a very dry Q3 and then a booming Q4 and I guess a strong Q1 and Q2. When you blend all that together. How did 2022 come out overall?

[12:03] Guest: Yeah, so we did still manage to pull in about 1.7 million in sales. I would say we're still kind of adjusting everything, but anywhere between 250 to 275k in net. So that helps cover the loan, helped cover my living expenses. We did. We did okay in that regard. There are a lot of random little costs that came up and a lot of advertising dollars that I threw down the toilet. So that number could be much bigger, I think, if I had been smarter, which it will be much bigger this year.

Host: Okay, well. And then just again, before we dive back into the weeds, how do you feel just, you know. Yeah, answer this. How very open ended. How do you feel about this path that you've chosen, buying a business, given the good, the bad and the ugly?

Guest: I regret it every day and I'm grateful for it. Every day it's the most hot and cold thing I've ever experienced. There are moments where I think, man, I have mortgaged my kids future for owning a business and all of the stress. And then there are moments where I'm like, look at all those QuickBooks payments coming in. This is amazing. And so kind of my overarching lesson on this is it's never going to be what you think. But that's not necessarily a reason to not dive in. I would say it's definitely brought myself brought into a little more peace with work in general, has helped me come to peace with a W2. And I'm very happy working at W2 in a different way that I hadn't been before.

Host: Yeah, because you had been a little bit itchy at your W2s before. And so now going back to a W2, having experienced the travails of being a business owner, you feel like you, you, you value W2 in a way that you didn't before. Is that what you're saying?

Guest: Yeah, absolutely. So I think I got to the point where I realized that structure and the camaraderie you kind of get with a team is really important. I work for a very small startup that's, that's growing and that's been really valuable to me. But also, yeah, it's that, that itchiness is gone. There's like an extra clarity for work. And also it's a little bit different when you want to be there versus have to be there. So I, I, you know, I could focus all my time on this business. I could try to acquire more businesses through this. I've, I've had a lot of really good conversations with investors and private equity groups who want to roll up installation businesses. So in that regard there's other options. But I'm, I'm pretty happy with where I'm at. And so it's, it's brought me a lot of peace.

Host: And so do you. Are you thinking two and five years out if you can get Pacific Insulation supplied to a certain SDE, then you'll stop the W2 and go back to it full time or not? Not necessarily. And you're going to continue having it kind of as a side thing indefinitely, no matter how much it grows?

[15:05] Guest: I think it's going to be a side thing for me indefinitely. So I don't know necessarily where my career is going to bring me, but I'm pretty happy where I'm at. And so I kind of think what I'm going to do is keep it on the side, potentially sell it in three to five years and then use that money to maybe do something a little more passive. This is fairly passive, but something very passive, maybe more like in the real estate realm and just investing and not necessarily doing deals.

Host: Okay. And yeah, let's talk about how passive you've. You've managed to make it. So how many hours a week are you devoting to it? And yeah, first answer that, please.

Guest: Less than five.

Host: Less than five. Wow. And when you acquired it, would that have been possible? Or have you been putting systems in place, you know, in preparation for. For your W, going back to your W2?

Guest: It would not have been possible, partly because of the lead flow, but also partly because the prior owner didn't really necessarily trust the salespeople to sell to the level he could. And there's some truth to that. But I've tested them and they've done really well. The other thing that kind of was a challenge was just the way that the quoting system was in place and the way that we were invoicing made doing an order really arduous. And I simplified that by uploading all of our products into QuickBooks. You could quote and get payments out of the same system. And so it might sound dumb, but when you're working on four or five orders in a day, that's easier to do when you're, you know, building the invoice in a minute and a half, as opposed to five minutes, and then following up and stuff. So, yeah, I got to the point now where it's about five hours a week those systems are in place. I have somebody who manages certain leads, who manages certain phone calls coming from different lead sources, and I silo them out so I can see what's working, what's not working. Whereas before there was no silo, it was all just coming to one main line and kind of putting those systems in place has shown me, you know, where the money's being well spent, where it's not, who's performing, who's not, what do they need? And so I can look at that information really easily. I just keep our dialer up in an open window and I just kind of watch it throughout the day. So if there's a lead that comes in that's not being touched, I see it, I get a little notification and I just send it to the salesperson to close out. So the first real test of this system was in June. Um, I was going on a five day camping trip to Zion's national park and had to put my faith in my salespeople and they did good.

Host: So August Felker is a two time successful searcher. First with a traditional search fund. The second time around he did a self funded search. Today August runs Oberly Risk Strategies, an insurance firm with a dedicated practice group for searchers and acquisition entrepreneurs like you. If you've got a business under Loi Oberle will provide complimentary due diligence on that business's insurance and benefits program. A great no risk way to get to know August and team. They love helping searchers. They've worked with hundreds. Oberly is a specialty insurance brokerage for searchers by a former searcher. Check out oberly-risk.com O B E R L E risk.com link in the show notes and your sales people are all in the Philippines?

[18:30] Guest: Yep, everybody's in the Philippines. I, I toyed with bringing that into the U.S. but ultimately just decided to keep them there and don't have any regrets about that decision.

Host: One of the things that I had seen you say in a Twitter thread at some point this year was the importance of, you know, ramping up your team on sales, which it sounds like you ultimately did and did really well and so and also just tying into the question about outsourcing to the Philippines. Sales is not a function that I'm super familiar with people doing that because sales is so kind of nuanced and cultural and it sounds like your seller maybe felt the same way or he didn't have the confidence and that his salespeople could sell as well as him. I don't know if it's because they were in the Philippines or what, but just address that like that folks in the Philippines are able to. You were able to train them on selling effectively.

Guest: Yeah. Their communication skills are excellent and so that makes the first barrier easier to clear.

Host: Yep.

Guest: Really what I implemented with them was just steps. Here's what you do. You get an order, here are the steps you take. Right. You give them a price and you kind of negotiate off that price. And then closing. They had never really done closing before. They would just kind of send a price that they wanted it. They'd send the invoice. But I kind of thought them out of clothes. How to add a little bit of urgency. Hey, we're running low on this material if you want it. I probably need to get the order in this day or if you need this material by Thursday, we need that payment in by this day. So then kind of using those two things together, how to close, how to follow up, how to build Urgency has helped them be a little bit more efficient. And so I'm less worried about them just sending out invoices and them just sitting there and nobody pays them.

Host: So that's phenomenal. You know Damon, I'm really struck because even though you had a really hard Q3, it drove you back to getting a W2. You, it sounds like you now have this incredibly well oiled machine. You went through the crucible of year one and had a really hard quarter. And yet here you are now working five hours a week on the business and it's generating, you know, two, three, maybe 400,000 in SD this year. And yet you don't want to devote your full energy to. So I guess I just want to like distill all of what we've been talking about. It sounds like you just didn't like the lifestyle as much. So even though you've, you've kind of, you've, you were successful at it despite a very hard quarter Q3, you just don't like it as much as other, other ways to spend your career.

[21:09] Guest: Yeah, I, I think if I had bought a business that had a lot more customer facing, like in person, contact with employees and customers or whomever, it would be a lot easier for me to do. But I realized working from home, just from home, I was driving my, my wife absolutely insane. I was very idle. I found that I did way less, I got less done because I had nothing to do. And so yeah, I just realized this is kind of a better lifestyle for everybody. Kind of going back to the traditional, like I'm at work, I come home, I'm at home. And it's been really beneficial for our family, for me personally, my own mental health. And so yeah, the lifestyle, I don't really love the solopreneur lifestyle like I thought I would. But kind of going back to your question about not devoting the full time, I realized pretty early on growing this thing to 5 million, which was what my plan was. I figured 5 million would probably get us to around a million in sde.

Host: Yep.

Guest: I realized that was going to be way more difficult than I realized. And I kind of sat back and thought to myself, what's more valuable to me devoting all my energy to this business, try to get it to 5 million when some parts of it I don't know are scalable to that point anyway. Or build a well oiled machine that does between two to two and a half million a year, maybe three to four hundred thousand in sde, but you don't ever have to work on it. And I thought that is probably more valuable to me personally. And when I go to sell, I might have a wider range of audiences who are interested because the price point will be lower, but it'll be a home run for whoever takes it over. So that's kind of the system I'm building. And I do think we can grow to 3 to 4 million. And that's, that's kind of the next phase after we get out of what I consider this pre recession time.

Host: One of the things that you'd mentioned in Twitter over the course of the year is like, if you were to do it again, buy a business again, one of the things that you wouldn't want to buy is a business that only differentiates on price, which I assume is what is what you're doing with what you have to do with Pacific Insulation Supply. Elaborate on that. Like how, how have you found that and what, what would you do to grow now? If it sounds like it's really just a commoditized kind of good that you're selling, how do you grow another million or two in sales?

Guest: Yeah, there's. It's not very sticky. If you're just working on price. It's not very sticky. You're gonna get a lot of people who are interested but aren't gonna buy because they found a better price elsewhere. And we run into that all the time in certain regions. But the way I plan on growing now is we are doing an extra emphasis on recurring business. So we're giving a little more favorable paying term payment terms to some of our recurring clients. And I spiff my salespeople on orders that are recurring. So those are our lowest hanging fruit, in my opinion, is this book of 5,000 contractors who have bought insulation from us before. And additionally, I'm still in the early phases of doing this, but I am going to be hiring a cold caller who will be kind of responsible for lead generation by making contact with as many contractors in our big states as possible. So that's the plan to grow another million or so. I think it's there for the picking. I recently installed a live chat which has increased our conversion. We've done 25,000 in sales on it in the last six days. So that is very promising.

[24:45] Host: And you think those are sales that you might have otherwise lost?

Guest: Potentially, yeah, potentially. I think sometimes. I mean, yeah, it's hard to tell, but the volume on the other, you know, on the actual web business is not changing. And that is a new. A new thing. So hard to Say, but I feel really good about that in terms of improving our conversion.

Host: And so the way, the kind of flow for one of your customers is they just search for installation in Google and click your ad and then are basically taken through an order funnel. So it's. You're basically kind of. It's kind of an E commerce. A one off E commerce flow.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, we call it manual E commerce. So it's not as easy. And so we are in the middle of a website redesign, so that form to get your quote will be a lot faster. But yeah, the other thing that we're really looking for is people that just call us. So there's a bunch of call us places. You click a link, it sends us a text, all that stuff. So that's another really good way. So I have a specific number that's just from the website and then we run ads on various different classified listings, which we make a lot of money from, but I have a specific number just for that website that it goes to. And so then at the end of the week, I look and see how many web leads we got versus how many clicks we got, how much money we put in, and try to determine our return on ad spend that way.

Host: Great. Damon, in our, in our first conversation, you had talked about your history with. You have mild bipolar. Mild bipolar situation. How did you handle that given the, the roller coaster that was this past year? Did it affect things or do you have it under control or what?

Guest: Oh, man. No, it was an absolute roller coaster. But here's kind of the. What, what happened? So I ended up doing. Love to do a plug for some alternative medicine here, but.

Host: Okay, go for it.

Guest: I have, I have tried lots of medications and I ended up doing transcranial magnetic stimulation therapy, which is essentially using a magnet to awake a certain part of the brain and form a new neural pathway. So when you have anxiety or depression, which my symptoms kind of swing between those two things depending on the mood and what triggers there are. And so when you have anxiety, depression, your brain has a response that it runs through that neural pathway, even if it's not necessarily a chemical thing you're dealing with. So I did transcranial magnet. TMS is what it's called. We'll call it tms.

[27:21] Host: Okay.

Guest: Tms. I did TMS for seven weeks. Every single day I went, they zapped my brain with a magnet for 20 minutes straight. And it essentially cured any depressive symptoms that I had ever experienced. I haven't had any depression since then. I still have had highs and Lows and those kind of swing more between like being really happy to being very anxious. But this because of the business and the anxiety that kind of came from it. It got me to do talk therapy the first time consistently and that's been very beneficial to work on my self talk. And it helped me kind of realize how important taking care of my mental health is in terms of being successful professionally. So it's been ups and downs for sure, but I would say the last three to four months especially have been very smooth. And so a little plug. If you have tried a lot of different medications for depression or anxiety or OCD or ptsd, TMS is a great option if you can get your insurance to pay for it. So I'm a big fan.

Host: Great. I wasn't familiar with it. And then when you say talk therapy, you mean kind of traditional talking to a therapist?

Guest: Yeah, yeah, talking to a therapist. Looking at the things in my mind that are self defeating and we're kind of blocking the path for me effectively running my life in business. So yeah, I think, I think I want to be as big of a mental health advocate as I possibly can in this little corner of the SMB world.

Host: Yeah, that's awesome, man. Well, I, I mean, just looking at it as an outsider objectively, I mean, you have a lot to be proud of, man. I mean, you bought a business and now you're working on it five hours a week. You put in all these systems, you've made all these improvements, you, you suffered through but survived a extremely dry quarter. And you've got the business so smoothly running that you're only giving it five hours a week while you have an entire W2. I mean, from where I'm sitting, it's not that, it's not the path that maybe you were inspired by when you set, when you set out to buy a business. And it's not the traditional one, that one who buys a business goes down, but it seems very successful and it seems like exactly what you want because you could quit that W2 and go back to running your business and you just choose not to simply because it's at your discretion and you're happy with where you're at. So you, you, you wanted a lot of optionality and you have it in spades.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, it's really nice. And like I said, you know, wanting to be at work and knowing that you're there, choosing to be there and to work with the team makes a big difference for me. Not feeling like I have to be there. My, my mentality is different. And then another thing that's going on in our life, my wife is becoming like a. An electrologist. So kind of like laser hair removal, but with electricity and with thermal heat. She'll. She's starting a program and should be finished up by the end of the summer. And so my job now is to provide some stability, which SMB doesn't really allow for. So I'm going to be providing the stability and kind of be a cheerleader while she gets that off the ground. So, yeah, that's the. That's the plan. We're still going to be in small business, I guess, as a family, but I'm excited for my wife to get her. Her turn to see what she can do.

[30:37] Host: And for anybody, any searcher who's listening, might they reach out to you to buy your business? Are you in a position where you'd sell the business today or you do want to hold on to it and get to 3 or 4 million and maybe in 5 years?

Guest: I would say right now I'm not in the market to sell. I thought. I've thought about it. I even had conversations with a couple of people who wanted to buy it, who had lost out on it the year before.

Host: Oh.

Guest: Um. But I decided ultimately it was a down year. I think this is going to be a good year, and I think we can get it to a higher multiple and I guess higher se to get a better multiple and potentially more money left over. And so whatever I can walk away with would be a great cash on cash return. If I can sell it. If I can sell it for even what I bought it for in five years, that would be a good cash on cash return to walk away with. But ultimately, I think. I think the. The time is not now to sell.

Host: Okay. Okay. Just a couple more questions for you before we close out here, Damon. The. It is tied to construction, essentially. Like a business like this is very tied to construction. So it goes as the real estate development construction goes.

Guest: Absolutely. And home renovations. So that's why you saw. I mean, everybody was renovating in 2020 and 2021. So there was a huge boom. And then, you know, because people got really scared about construction as those interest rates began hiking.

Host: Yep.

Guest: And we saw a lot of projects pushed, a lot of projects canceled. Lead volume dip by about 70%. And now that's kind of peeking its way back up to pre2021 levels. 2021 was insane. They were getting 150 to 200 leads a day. Now we're getting. Yeah, right now we're getting a more manageable 60 to 70 per day. For a while it was 20 to 30, so 60 to 70 is great. They're also all strike zone because we're really drilled down on who we're trying to sell to. So that's helpful. But yeah, so I'm very optimistic about this coming year. Even though most people probably aren't in the economy. We've seen that construction is beginning to happen again as the Fed has kind of leveled out at this. It's a higher rate, but at least it's predictable.

Host: Yeah, yeah. And any thoughts, Damon, on like, the nature of the business? So you said at the top that you kind of are a paper pusher. Like you take an order in one hand and then pass it through to, you know, give it to, to your supplier. So essentially I think a lot of distribution businesses are like that, but with varying complexity. And probably a lot of distributors also do carry inventory, which you don't. But the nature of that business. Any, any comments on it? We already know that a solopreneur. You don't like that aspect of it, but any other thoughts on it?

[33:22] Guest: Yeah, it's. If you can find a good vertical to sell to, I think it's a good deal. Insulation is our little niche. There's not a lot of people that are like, oh, I'm going to start drop shipping installation today. But essentially kind of knowing what you are. Right. So I, I thought we were an insulation business for a long time and finally I realized we're not. We're an advertising company. That's all we do. You know, we run ads and we get orders that way. And so I think knowing what you are, knowing what the business is as you're buying it. So, okay, you're a drop shipping company. Trying to figure out what that really means.

Host: Yeah.

Guest: So are you an Amazon business? Are you not? Do you have a brand? Do you not for us. Luckily we have really good SEO and so we have that to lay back on. So, yeah, know what you are and then kind of drill down on it. So, I mean, I thought about acquiring an installation contractor for a little bit. There are a couple that wanted me to do them their franchises. But then I realized we're not an installation business, we're a wholesaler. It would make more sense for me to buy a wholesaling business than it would for me to buy a construction business. I would fit in with our systems better. So, yeah, that's kind of all I have to say.

Host: Speak about that and then back to your team in the Philippines, having a whole team outsourced there, including people that are doing sales for you. Any advice or thoughts about working with a team in the Philippines that you've learned?

Guest: Treat them well and they'll, like, love you forever. I give them a stipend for tech. I give them a stipend for health insurance. I give them sick days, time off, things that weren't in place when I got there. And these are the most loyal people ever. They. They love working for me, or at least they're very good liars. And I, I love having them. So I, I run.

Host: Did you hire any of them or did they all come with the business?

Guest: I did hire one and then we had to let him go and lead slowed down, but I told him that, you know, if we just come pick back up, I'd be more than happy to bring him back. And I actually helped him get on with another business that was needing a cold caller. So, yeah, maybe bring him back to his cold calling. We'll see if he's interested in that. But, yeah, that's the. That's. That's my advice. Just treat them really well. Yes, they are a fraction of the cost of a US Employee, but their life is not a fraction worth less, I guess. Yeah. So, yeah, that's.

Host: That's well put. Yeah, that's a great point. Damien. Anything I haven't asked you that you want to communicate to the audience.

Guest: Yeah, it's not all roses to buy a business, but it affords you some growth in some ways that you never would imagine you would grow. But also what's really important is to have that connection. I use Twitter to do it, but to connect with other people who own businesses and buy businesses, it's. It's extremely valuable. I have some long term goals that are kind of tied to having that connection and knowing the right people. So I would say use it as a business to make money, but also use it as a way to build your own brand, as much as I hate saying that.

[36:25] Host: Okay, great. Well, Damon, can people reach out to you on Twitter? Is that still the best way?

Guest: Yeah, yeah. Damon, underscore SMB. That's probably the best way to get me. I try to. I try to be pretty active on there and then, yeah, just reach out if you have questions or want to talk deals. I always love talking deals.

Host: Cool. All right, thanks a lot for coming back on D. Yeah, thanks, Will.

Guest: Sam.