Host: Patrick Dichter bought a bookkeeping and tax business just over a year ago at the end of 2021. I had him on Acquiring Minds shortly thereafter and I invited him back on now to update us on how things have gone. Spoiler quite well. Patrick's acquisition was small with 330,000 SDE on 1.2 million in sales. A year later, sales are up 60%. We get into how Patrick has done that, plus lots of other topics, why he bought small, his key advice for other searchers the viability of rolling up accounting and tax firms, and growing by acquisition versus growing organically. Patrick made two more tuck in acquisitions in 2022. We also discussed lots of elements of the bookkeeping and accounting industry and specifically from the perspective of a buyer of businesses in that industry. This episode is a nice follow up to my episode with Chris Williams of a few weeks ago, which was also an update with a former guest and also a searcher who acquired a business around bookkeeping. So if you're interested in this space and it is appealing, you've now got four episodes to sink your teeth into about searchers who acquired bookkeeping businesses, all of which of course linked in the notes. Here is Patrick Dichter, owner and CEO of AppleTree Business Services. Welcome to Acquiring Minds, a podcast about buying businesses. My name is Will Smith. Acquiring an existing business is an awesome opportunity for many entrepreneurs and on this podcast I talk to the people who do it. I want to share an update on the Acquisition Lab. As you know, the Lab is a highly vetted cohort based accelerator and community for people serious about buying a business. After going through the Lab's month long intensive, you have ongoing access to almost daily Q and A sessions with advisors, regular live deal reviews with Walker Deibel, author of Buy, Then Build, Potential Deal team introductions, and a very active Slack group with other searchers on the path. Well, the update is that the Lab recently passed 60 businesses acquired and for well over $100 million in aggregate transaction value. Also, all members now enjoy lifetime access to the Lab because when you buy a business, it's often just the first of many and the Lab wants to support you in every deal, not just your first. Lastly, check out my recent interview with Shane Ursum, episode 105. Shane acquired a business with over a million dollars in EBITDA in just six months and he attributes a lot of his deal success to what he learned in the Lab. Check out acquisitionlab.com or email the lab's director, Chelsea Wood. Chelseaiveenbuild.com Patrick Dichter thank you for joining me today on Acquiring Minds. Patrick, you were a guest on Acquiring Minds early last year. I interviewed you in February 2022. So 10 or 11 months ago. You had recently acquired a bookkeeping business, Apple Tree. And we talked about your search, why you wanted to buy a business, why you wanted to buy a bookkeeping business in particular, and how you ultimately found and acquired Apple Tree. Now you are more CEO than searcher, so I wanted to have you back on to hear how things have gone in your first year. Start us off, Patrick, though, with a couple of minutes just on your background and refresh people's memory on your your acquisition of Apple Tree.

[3:43] Guest: Well, thanks for having me on. I love the pod. I love hearing these stories. They're inspirational, educational to all of us. So my, my bio, I'm not an accountant by trade. I got my undergrad and MBA and I spent seven years at a digital marketing company in a sales leadership role and loved working with our small business clients. And then I spent three years in a small business advisory and coaching firm. And we were constantly referring out bookkeeping. And I just saw how transformational it was for the clients to really have improved bookkeeping. And ultimately I went looking for a business to acquire and I closed on Apple Tree Business Services at the end of 2021. And so I'm about 13 months into owning it and really enjoy it. And we've done a couple more acquisitions since then, so that's my quick file.

Host: Great. Awesome. And how big was Apple Tree when you acquired it?

Guest: 1.2 million top line and 330,000 SDE. Perfect.

Host: Well, first question for you, Patrick, just broadly, how do you feel about this path of acquisition, entrepreneurship, that to buy a business and become a business owner, it's all very abstract, but now you're a year into it. Tell the audience what it feels like and how you reflect back on the decision to go this way.

Guest: I'm so grateful that I did it and I was joking with my wife the other night that I'm so happy for this path and it's been a ton of work, but just seeing where the firm is at now and in this season of life, I think it's the right move. I'm working more than I ever have, but for, for a good reason and for good upside. And I don't have any regret, so really happy about it.

Host: Beautiful. Okay. And as you said, about 13 months into actual ownership, is there any like just top line learning or two from the last year really about anything about search, about being A CEO about small business life. Anything that you would want to share to somebody contemplating this path?

Guest: Yeah, I think for any searcher,

[6:03] Host: what

Guest: I would tell them is, you know, it's such a roller coaster before you close and you just, you have to hang in there, work the process. You have to just look at a ton of deals. I'm very grateful for the firm that I bought. It was really well run and we have a really solid team. And, you know, there were some, there were some businesses where I probably would have given you a lot different answer if I would have closed on them. You know, they were just, they would have been a lot harder to grow or to scale or to frankly live off of. So for searchers, I would say hang in there, commit to the process, and just know that you'll figure things out sequentially. I see so many searchers where I think they get things out of order. They look at a sim and they're already trying to do due diligence before they've talked to an owner, talk to the owner, move the deal along, you know, have a second call, have the loi, figure out the legal later. Like hire an attorney. Right. Like, figure out the SBA financing later. Right. Like, I have a lot of people that, you know, I feel like they just, they look at step 12 before they figure it out. Step two and three. And the analogy, I always tell everyone. So Moses Kagan on Twitter, he's a real estate guy.

Host: Yeah.

Guest: But he talks about, like, if you look at enough deals, when a good one comes across, it's like seeing the Matrix. Like, you'll, you'll know that it's different and you'll move fast. And I, I think that's the number one thing that a searcher can do is like, you just have to look at a ton of deals and when a good one comes, it'll jump out of you and you gotta, you gotta pass.

Host: I do, I do like that advice. It sounds like a rather magical experience. What I, what I don't like about that is that advice is that if I. If what? What if I see a really great deal and it's just my first, second or third business that I'm looking at, you know, I'm not going to have the confidence if I really internalize this advice to move on it, because I'm going to say, well, I just can't be smart enough yet to make this call. And maybe the answer is you're probably not. Like, don't let yourself buy the first, second or third, no matter how good it looks. Because you probably aren't smart enough. What do you say to that?

Guest: Yeah, chances are very unlikely that your first couple ones are going to be good. But, you know, if it does feel like a good one, maybe you, you know, compare that to another four or five and see if it really does rise above.

Host: Yeah. You just said a second ago that, you know, you feel very fortunate to have acquired Apple Tree because you got a really quality business, which is, of course, the name of the game. Is it good in all the ways that you thought pre close or has. Have there been surprises that you just got lucky with?

Guest: No, the things that I thought pre close was like, okay, this has really good recurring revenue. You know, there's a good team in place. The owner isn't, you know, know, managing all the clients himself. And all those things have turned out to be true. There's definitely been a ton of challenges and a lot of like, you know, kind of like speed bumps. Right. And like some small skeletons in the closet, but not. Not big ones. But those initial things that made me feel good about it have all been true. Great.

[9:08] Host: Okay, well, let's talk about what. Any numbers behind this past year? What is. What does it look like? It was 1.2 million in sales when you acquired it. Where are you today? At the end of 2022 or. Yeah, 2023.

Guest: Yeah, we finished up around 2 million in revenue, so we grew about 60% top line. We're on pace for, I don't know, 3, 3.5 in 2023 if we didn't acquire anyone else. So team size was 12 team members at closing, and now we're probably 22 team members.

Host: And Patrick, I know that you've made two acquisitions this year, which we're going to get into here in just a sec. Is that revenue growth due to those acquisitions or is it in the. Is it in the original Apple tree? Just organic growth through Apple Tree, A few things.

Guest: You know, those close later in the year. So not a lot of that is from those. We raised prices in July, so that that helped a little bit. We've had organic growth. So it's kind of the combination of those three things. Raising prices, organic growth, and then these other acquisitions.

Host: Well, so the raising of prices is. Is not something that you can do every year. So do you think. But you're talking about a lot of growth this coming year as well. And. And I don't anticipate that you'll raise prices again.

Guest: No, actually.

Host: Oh, you will. And just kind of along with inflation sort of thing. Or, or. Okay, okay, so, and so I guess part of the, the, the top line growth then is also just keeping pace with inflation. So we, we a little bit of that. But. Well, I mean, I just. That 60% number is pretty huge, Patrick. I mean, this is not, this is not typically seen in small business. You know, small business is slow and steady. 60% growth a year is. Is not slow and steady. That's a ton of growth. So you must be psyched. And is there any. So it's. I guess I'm just trying to draw you out a little bit on that. That's a very impressive number. Are you as kind of pleased and surprised by it as I am?

Guest: I am pleased. It's better than I thought we would do. You know, my goal from the start was to sell one or two new clients per month and we've averaged four. So some of that was just from like low hanging fruit with marketing. Some of it was like, I'm just better at sales than the previous owner. I don't know how else to say that. That's my, that's my background. And the other thing was I made a big investment in a person dedicated to just onboarding because previously onboarding a new bookkeeping tax client is a ton of work. It's like four or five times the work of a monthly process. And so I made a big investment to hire somebody just for that. And she's a rock star. So that kind of like opened up a lot more growth. And then, you know, previous owner only sold in a couple states in New England. And you know, after I looked really hard at that, I decided to sell nationwide. So that opened up the funnel. And then, you know, my personal network and some inbound from Twitter is helping helped with new clients as well.

[12:18] Host: Well, you do a great job of getting your name out there on LinkedIn, on Twitter and that bears fruit in terms of new clients.

Guest: Yeah. And I think one thing that's been surprising, you know, is like so many people don't like their accountant. You know, there's a lot of demand out there that if you do a half decent job with marketing, you're going to get leads. It's a matter of like, are they the good leads that you want? And like, are you appropriately staffed to be able to take them on? Because there's so many accountants retiring from the industry and less students coming in. And you know, not many people love their account because they're just notoriously like overworked and like, not very communicative. So the amount of demand that's out there has been, has been surprising to me. So I'm not like some sort of like sales marketing genius. I, you know, I picked an industry that you know, is like, is an easy one to pick up new clients in.

Host: Yeah, yeah. And do you find that most of your clients are coming from unhappy experiences or are some of your clients using bookkeeping and accounting services for the first time in apple tree?

Guest: It's a little of both. So you have some people who, you know, or frustrated by accountant with a similar scope and they're moving to us. And then there's some people who have said, you know, I used to only have somebody do taxes once a year and now I'm ready for like a more full fledged bookkeeping tax service. Right. Or you know, we have some of these searchers who are buying a business, you know, so you're picking up a new client that really needs like the full suite of services.

Host: Well, and so you picked an industry with great tailwinds. So that's, you know, that's rule number

Guest: one in maybe good tailwinds for demand, terrible tailwinds for talent, you know.

Host: Well, and so let's, so I want to dive into the business itself. So you, you were very thesis driven. You, you know, you had had this experience at cultivate was one, was one of your employers. You'd spent years there, three years I think consulting small businesses. And one of the things that you saw again and again and again was that like many small businesses, their books were a mess and you, you just, you really can't pull any levers. Well with it with, with 30 books. So it was just, it was super valuable for all these clients to have clean books. And you say you just saw the value of bookkeeping and that was kind of what, what piqued your interest in bookkeeping. And so now that you've actually been in the industry and this is no longer kind of an abstract thesis or theory, how do you feel about the business? We've touched on two things. Lots of demand, but challenged in terms of supply of people going into this industry as, as practitioners. Talk to me about that. What's that about? There's just like, just like in the trades there's just like fewer people all the time or what?

[15:12] Guest: Yes, there's, there's just less. I think some people say that the student that might have gone into accounting, a lot of those are going into software and tech that kind of like detail oriented, like math bent type of student is going into writing code. There's heavy burnout. So Even people that aren't at retirement age want to leave the industry. Those are the two factors, like people leaving the industry who aren't at retirement age and less students coming into the game.

Host: So on the one hand that's bad news for you because it makes hiring that much harder. On the other hand it means that prices for your services are going to go up over the next five and 10 years. Like is it a net positive that basically it means that your services are becoming scarcer and therefore you'll be able to charge more over time?

Guest: Yeah, I'm kind of an optimist so I'll look at it that way. And I also think like I'm going to figure out recruiting and I'm going to apply my sales skills to recruiting whereas other people won't. So I'll, I'll be able to recruit, so I'll solve it. So all in all, like I'm excited about that and I'll, I'll figure it out. One thing that I thought pre close that's changed is I thought it'd be really easy to offshore and I don't, I don't feel that way anymore. I do think that's inevitable. Like you, most firms need to be doing some sort of offshoring eventually or you can do the low level skills there. But what I've definitely learned is just how complex accounting is and all the intricacies of the way US companies work or the way different states work or the way tax code is. Like you can't just offshore quickly.

Host: August Felker is a two time successful searcher. First with a traditional search fund. The second time around he did a self funded search. Today August runs Oberle Risk Strategies, an insurance firm with a dedicated practice group for searchers and acquisition entrepreneurs like you. If you've got a business under loi, Oberle will provide complimentary due diligence on that business's insurance and benefits program. A great no risk way to get to know August and team. They love helping searchers. They've worked with hundreds. Oberle is a specialty insurance brokerage for searchers for by a former searcher. Check out oberly-risk.com ob r l e-risk.com link in the show notes One of the big themes in your in our first interview was that you are not an accountant CPA yourself and how that was a big hurdle to finding a business to buy. There are I guess a handful of brokers, business brokers in the accounting financial services world and they all kind of stonewalled you. They Wouldn't. They wouldn't send you deals because. Because you didn't have the credential that they look for. But you made it, you made it work for yourself doing proprietary outreach, by the way. People should really go back and listen. Your first episode, it was an awesome one on many levels. Now that you're in the business, was it a problem that you didn't know, you know, that you don't come from an accounting background or bookkeeping background for question one. Question two. How educated have you gotten on the actual what your business does?

[18:37] Guest: I definitely think it was a helpful in that I couldn't bring bias to it. I had to slow down and listen. I maybe brought some fresh perspective in. I think now I'm well versed in the fundamentals of bookkeeping and managerial accounting. Tax. I'm just, I'm very novice there, you know, there's still just, there's still so much complexity to tax. I'm, you know, trying to learn that all the time. So we have a great team, you know, and I, I lean on them a lot. And the previous seller has been great in the transition. Where it, it still bites me sometimes is I, I do our sales. So, like, if I don't scope something properly or I don't understand a nuance, then our team is kind of like, hey, you know, like, this is much more of a bear than you let on. So that's definitely something that I need to work on and continue to educate myself on. Is tax intricacies.

Host: And was that at all a source of tension between you and the team that you're not one of them?

Guest: There is tension when I am trying to lead, change, or bring on new clients. And I'm like, hey, I don't think you under, understand like how hard this is to work with new clients or this isn't a good time to do those things. So we've had shitty conflict around those

Host: things

Guest: or working through it, I think. Um, but that's come up where they're like, dude, leave us alone. You have no idea what this is like from, you know, December to April.

Host: One of the other things that we talked about in your first interview was the. You were initially looking for pure bookkeeping and you, you, you didn't want to buy a firm that was doing tax work. You kind of loosened that criteria. You saw Apple Tree and talking to the owner of Apple Tree, the business that you, you now bought, that you now own, gave you some comfort that it would be fine. Now talking to. A year later, I hear you mention Tax Work a lot. So has it ultimately become some a big part of the business or what break down the kind of the relative percentages of strict bookkeeping and tax work?

[21:05] Guest: Yeah, I'm definitely grateful that I did buy a firm that includes tax. Tax now is probably 30 to 40% of our revenue. But the reason I like that we do tax is because on the client delivery side, even if you're doing bookkeeping, you're going to get pulled into tax related questions and conversations as tax planning comes up or depreciation comes up or you know, year end changes are made. The other reason I'm grateful that we do tax is because I think a lot of clients want that one stop shop that does their bookkeeping and their tax and tax usually leads new clients in the door more than anything and then we pick up the bookkeeping as they come in. So I'm grateful that that's part of our service mix. Yeah.

Host: And if you were talking to a searcher who's interested in this industry, is there kind of a sweet spot that you tell them to look like a tax firm with bookkeeping or bookkeeping firm with tax or what would you say now being on the other side of

Guest: this, since my first episode with you, I've probably had 50 calls with people who really after that episode, the thing that I always tell them, I'm like, okay, imagine two firms. One is Modern, it's only 700k in revenue and it's 150k at STE. There's another one that's a little bit more old school and it's like 3 million top line and like 800k ste. Most search books and everything would tell you to buy the bigger firm with 800k SDE and I tell them buy the smaller modern one every damn day of the week. Because if you fast forward two years that modern small firm will be in a much better spot than the big firm. So I tell them to look for recurring billing cloud based bookkeeping, you know, if you can or bookkeeping and tax as a bundle versus like you know, picking up most of your revenue just during the tax season or bookkeeping being an afterthought. You know that's just like it's, it's, it's so painful to try to change a firm like that that you know, you want recurring revenue and you want modern tech focused accounting.

Host: Well, that was going to be my follow up question. It's like is the opportunity not to buy a larger firm and retrofit it or I guess forward fit it.

Guest: Sorry for the Vulgarity. Stay the fuck away. Like, it's just, it's not worth it.

Host: Okay.

Guest: There's like three layers of change management. You have staff behavior, you have client behavior, and you have technology. And it's just brutal to try to take like all those on and, and change it over.

Host: Okay.

Guest: Like, you know, apple tree, when I bought it was probably like a 7 out of 10 modern. And to get it to like an 8.5 has been really hard. And if you were to try to take like an old school firm that's like a three out of ten modern and like bring it to a nine, like, good luck. Forget it. Yeah, okay.

[24:14] Host: All right, listen, listen to the man here. Audience. One of the things that you had envisioned, your kind of, your vision was, was doing something of a roll up, I think I heard you on David Barnett say, like the sweaty, the sweaty startup, the Nick Huber of accounting firms. Yeah. And then now that seems hopelessly naive. And you swore in fact that you wouldn't do any more acquisitions though you have, and we're going to hear you tell us why. But, but what was it that you were naive about? Why is this, why is that? What was that initial vision? Did it turn out to be impossible?

Guest: Well, it's just back on how hard change management is after your first one. If you're gonna do rollups, you have to be really intentional that the client profile is similar, the tech stack is similar, the pricing is similar. Right. So like at AppleTree, we use QuickBooks Online for bookkeeping, we use Ultratax for tax. Our clients are billed monthly. Our team is paid on a percentage of the production that they do. Like, those are very, those are just core tenets of the way the business runs. And if I were to try to acquire something that was tax only, and the bookkeeping they did do was on zero and no clients had monthly billing and like all the team is on hourly or salary. Like those, those are just so incongruent that trying to get any type of synergy is going to be difficult. And accountants don't like change, you know, so like if you're coming in, acquiring a firm and you're trying to tell them that like we're going to change our billing, your, your pay is going to change. You got to learn different software. Like people that are already like overworked, it's, it's, it's just, it's a tough hill to climb, you know. So the reason I did end up doing these other acquisitions is because they really, one of them was identical to our type of firm. And then the other one was like 80% match and really modern, profitable firm. But otherwise I just think you can't do the massive roll up thing in accounting. You'll churn staff and you'll churn clients.

Host: The integration piece just doesn't work. And these two acquisitions. So let's hear briefly what happened there. Did they just come across your desk or were you kind of still out there searching a little bit.

Guest: So the smaller one was about 150k in revenue, was in our association. And that owner came to me, he said, you know, like, why don't I merge with you so that these clients have a home if I do retire. So that went pretty well. And then the other one, you know, I was just poking around on these sites where accounting firms are listed and I saw one that was listed for sale by owner. And you know, it was like very different, you know, read like recurring billing. Also had CFO services, had a very strong niche. Everything was cloud based, you know. So I reached out to them. I didn't hear back, emailed again, didn't hear back. And I saw it was based in Denver and I was like, hey, I'm going to be in town, let's get on a call. And finally got them on a phone call. And it just felt like a really good fit from the start. So that's one came to me and then the other one I found online.

[27:32] Host: Well, there's your sales acumen at work there, Patrick. Most people wouldn't have followed up that first email, but you made it happen and closed. That's awesome.

Guest: Thanks.

Host: You talk about your goal being $5 million in revenue in five years. So last year when you bought it, it was on point two. You grew to two, you said, I think you said this year expect to get to over three. Did I? Was that right?

Guest: Yes.

Host: So you. So you're on track to hit that $5 million number and that assumes no additional acquisitions, Right?

Guest: Right. So if, yeah, we're on pace to hit the goal or maybe a little bit ahead of schedule, and especially if we did acquisitions, we. We'd really be out of schedule.

Host: And let's actually talk about acquisitions versus organic growth. So episode that aired last week about Logan and Bradley in Austin who acquired a landscaping business and thought that they were just going to grow through acquisition and then ultimately found that organic growth, meaning just growing through sales, was a much better dollar for dollar way to do so. Do you have any thoughts there?

Guest: Yeah, I think acquisition is just more expensive. You know, I do think it can make sense that, like, it'll catapult you forward and you can get really good cash flow from it. But if you were to just compare, like, you know, our average client pays us 10 to $15,000 per year, and my acquisition cost from organic growth is like, you know, 10% of that revenue. But if I were to go acquire that, I'm going to pay one times that annual revenue or 1.2 or 1.3 times. So you're paying a lot more. Yeah, but again, like, it'll just take your firm to the next level if you do it. Well, it really depends on your goal. Right. Like, if. If my goal is just to grow as fast as I can and sell in a few years, I'd do more acquisitions. But my goal is to really hold this company for a while and optimize for the platform and for cash flow. So it's different

Host: on that point. Just a few more questions here, Patrick, before we wrap on that point about optimizing for a platform. You know, I think. I think you entertain the. The. The fantasy of kind of the Holdco. Right. So. So payroll and accounting won't be the last place that you're buying businesses in your career is. Is. But starting there with that platform business and have developing all these relationships with these clients across all these different industries, is this industry buying a business in this industry and making bookkeeping your platform business, do you think that that's a good way to kind of open yourself up to other acquisitions in other industries when the time comes? We're talking five years from now.

[30:30] Guest: Yes, totally. That was. That was part of my original thought. I just didn't want to say it, you know, because the hold go thing is overdone or, you know, it's like, I wanted to be the guy that like, goes and executes first, but I've already seen it. You know, clients say, like, yeah, I think we want to sell someday, but we don't know what that looks like. Right. Or we usually you're the first person to find out that they want to sell. Right. So I do think it's a great strategy to really, like, get those relationships going and, you know, get insider information and get potentially deal flow.

Host: You know, one of the things I heard you say also on the David and David's podcast is, was about how another kind of angle to your acquisition of bookkeeping was that you would cross sell consulting services that you also just kind of offer. And that actually hasn't panned out as well as you thought. And what struck me is, like, we can often in business, like have this idea about how, how the synergy that we, you know, that we imagine so, you know, you buy bookkeeping and, you know, you'll be able to convert a lot of them into your existing consulting services. And, and it'll, it'll be beautiful. And, and it kind of hasn't panned out as, as I heard you say. And then, and I just. So I kind of wanted to kind of make the same point about the Holdco thing. You pretty much already answered it. But like, nice in theory, you know, you have all these bookkeeping clients across all these industries across the country. You know, it's going to just fill your pipeline with future acquisitions. But like, probably in practice doesn't work that way. But, but what I'm hearing is in fact, you think now that you really are inside the business and see these relationships, that actually, in fact, that theory could really manifest itself in practice.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, I think so. And whether it's like, whether it's worth it at that time is like tbd, right? So if I'm making a good amount of money, it's like, okay, do I go through all this effort again in this, like, really time intensive thing, or do I just invest in real estate and equities and call it a day, you know? Yeah, so, yeah, fair enough.

Host: Okay. The two more questions for you here, Patrick. First, you bought a business that had $330,000 in ste. So that's kind of buying small. And a lot of people would say, no, you got to buy, you know, buy larger, buy 750, buy a million dollars in EBITDA. It comes up over and over again on the pod. Now that you're in it and you've, you've grown in, you know, you're on your way to growing into that sde. Do you have any thoughts on that advice that, that you hear so much about buying big?

[33:14] Guest: My, my singular goal is to just prove the search investment group guys wrong. You know, so every time they tweet, just tag me and say, well, this guy, you know, I'm kidding. I, I bought smaller for a couple reasons, and I don't think it works for everyone. I bought smaller because I wanted to retain 100% ownership. I didn't want to take outside investors. I also knew that I had an unfair advantage. Like I could come in and do billable consulting work that would cover debt service or cover growth. I don't think many people can do that. Right. If you go buy a plumbing company, you can't say like, oh, I was an investment banker and let me drive new revenue all of a sudden through the business. Right. Like, so I kind of had a unique advantage there. I think the other reality is, like, there's not that many, like, accounting firms that come up for sale that you're going to be able to get as a searcher, like if they are 5, 600, a million dollars in EBITDA, like private equity and regional firms are going to beat you every day of the week. You know, unless you're just paying some outrageous multiple. Right. Unless you're paying like 7 or 8x, you're just not going to be able to close on those. So I was just betting on my ability to, you know, have a competitive advantage. Post close.

Host: Great. And then lastly, Patrick, looking back on your transition. So when we spoke the first time, you were kind of right in the middle of your transition. You were very freshly in the seat. Do you look back on that time, that transition period, and is there anything that you would have done differently? Did you do something wrong?

Guest: The one thing I wish we would have closed sooner. So we closed December 31st and I wanted to close November 1st, so it would have given me, you know, another 60 days before busy season. I didn't have that, but it is what it is, you know, so I closed and then went right into busy season. So we, like, I didn't have much time to really learn the ropes. We were understaffed. And, you know, the culture was very much like, you don't do anything new, you don't hire people until May 1. So it would have just given me more time to try to hire or work on stuff before busy season. But here we are. Okay.

Host: Anything that we didn't touch on Patrick, that you want to share with searchers out there?

Guest: No, I love this community, so if you're in a search, stick with it. Reach out to people. I'm happy to chat with people and it's worth it.

Host: Great, great. What's the best way to reach you?

Guest: Yeah, I'm on Twitter, so. Patrick Dichter, I'm on LinkedIn and you can find our business if you need accounting services. Appletreebusiness.com is the URL and that's about it. Cool.

[36:03] Host: Well, all that will be linked to in the show notes. Patrick, thanks for coming back on. Really congratulations on obviously, not only the acquisition, but what you've done in the 13 months since. Sounds like you are just, I hate to use the phrase, but sounds like you're kind of crushing it, so thanks a lot.