[00:00:00 - 00:05:42]

Host: One of the hardest constraints on buying a business mid career is that the business earnings have to service the debt, fund reinvestment and still pay for your life. And if you've got a mortgage and a family, your life is expensive. But start buying businesses early enough and that constraint mostly goes away. Brendan Guerin was a few months out of college when he and three friends bought a dog daycare outside Chicago in December 2020.

It threw off only about $200,000 of earnings split four ways. None of them took a dollar out and all four kept their day jobs. Today, Brendan is the full time CEO of a six location pet care company across Ohio, Michigan, Illinois and Indiana, doing north of $5 million in revenue with over 100 employees. Listen for the margins in the dog daycare industry, which are way better than we're used to hearing in Acquiring Minds.

Part of that is the model. Brendan buys the real estate along with every business, and he explains why he won't do a deal any other way. Also listen for his posture toward the private equity money now pouring into dog daycare, where the consolidators standardize. Brendan has run the other direction.

Same names, same teams, same connection to each daycare's community. That has become the reason that these days sellers call him. Here he is Brendan Guerin, CEO of Argos Partners In a webinar last month, we covered the equity side of financing and acquisition. This month, it's debt.

Once debt enters the capital stack, you're dealing with different structures, different lenders and different points to negotiate. So in a webinar tomorrow Tuesday, attorneys Bill Barlow and James David Williams of Barlow and Williams return to take on the debt side of the deal. Among the topics you'll learn tomorrow how debt financing is typically structured in SBA acquisitions, how financing differs in independent sponsor deals, the roles, different lenders and sources of debt can play in the capital stack, common loan terms and negotiation points buyers need to understand and key considerations when evaluating and negotiating debt. The webinar is Debt Financing youg Deal, SBA and Independent Sponsor.

And it is tomorrow, Tuesday, October 13, noon Eastern. Link to register is right at the top of this episode's show notes or on the Acquiring Minds homepage acquiringminds co. Then on Thursday, we're hosting a webinar on a different kind of risk. The biggest first year problems rarely start as big problems.

They often begin with a detail that seemed minor at close and gets much harder to fix once you're operating the business. So in a webinar this Thursday, Chris Meadows and Ryan Johnson of Acquisition Lab will break down the operational and financial issues that can create outsized problems in the first six months of ownership and what buyers can do early to avoid them. Among the topics you'll learn insurance decisions that leave new owners exposed. Holdco Set up mistakes that become painful at tax time.

What has to be live on day one so vendors get paid and payroll keeps moving. Why a profitable business can still run into a cash crunch and when basic bookkeeping stops being enough to manage what's ahead. The webinar is the Small things that sink first year owners and it is this Thursday, October 15th, noon Eastern. Link to register is right at the top of this episode's show notes or on the Acquiring Minds homepage.

AcquiringMinds co. Welcome to Acquiring Minds, a podcast about buying businesses. My name is Will Smith. Acquiring an existing business is an awesome opportunity for many entrepreneurs and on this podcast I talk to the people who do it.

If you ask owners in the ETA and search community which insurance broker provides highest quality work, great outcomes and has a practice dedicated to searchers and acquisition entrepreneurs, one name comes up again and again. Oberle. Oberle Risk Strategies has worked with hundreds of searchers over nearly a decade and is in fact led by a two time successful searcher, August Felker, which makes Oberle a specialty insurance brokerage for searchers by a former searcher. And if you've got a business under loi, Oberle will provide complimentary due diligence on that business's insurance and benefits program.

An easy no risk way to get to know August and the team at Oberle. To take advantage, check out oberle-risk.com that's O B E R L E- risk.com, link in the notes. Brendan Guerin, welcome to Acquiring Minds.

[00:05:43 - 00:05:45]

Guest A: Thank you. Excited to be here.

[00:05:45 - 00:06:21]

Host: Brendan. You are an owner and the primary operator of multiple doggy daycares across the Midwest. You bought Your first at 21 years old sort of side hustling it. You've made multiple acquisitions since and today this nascent empire of five doggy daycares and a grooming facility location is much more serious, growing nicely.

We're going to learn all about it. Start us off with some background on you please. Brendan.

[00:06:21 - 00:07:15]

Guest A: Yeah, yeah for sure. So came from I feel like a pretty like boring typical like midwest background. So you know grew up in town called Main about an hour north of Cincinnati and I guess as a kid was always really into entrepreneurial pursuits and that sort of stuff and so from a young age very much like one of those people mowing lawns selling stuff online. Very into that from there, I guess, working and that sort of stuff.

I ended up working at this small hedge fund in Cincinnati. Actually. I basically just went door to door. I got a very big interest in investing, I guess, I don't know, seventh grade or something like that.

And so I went really deep down that rabbit hole, like total geek for that stuff. And like basically knocked on every door I could in Cincinnati. And I was like, hey, who will let me like help them, like put some financial models together. And so, you know, did that.

Ended up working for this small fund,

[00:07:16 - 00:07:19]

Host: went to Boston and what age are we now? Brendan, how old are you now?

[00:07:19 - 00:07:20]

Guest A: Oh, let's see.

[00:07:20 - 00:07:21]

Host: College or this is seventh grade.

[00:07:21 - 00:07:38]

Guest A: No, so this is like. I mean I started investing as a sixth grader, but I like the first like real job I had, I guess I was like 17, 18. So like I was doing that and basically just like building financial models. Essentially.

Like I signed up for all these online course to like learn how to do them and like went very deep down that rabbit hole.

[00:07:40 - 00:07:44]

Host: So, okay, so this is kind of pre college or in summers.

[00:07:44 - 00:07:44]

Guest A: Exactly.

[00:07:44 - 00:07:45]

Host: Okay, great.

[00:07:45 - 00:08:51]

Guest A: College. Pre college, yeah. So then for college I went to Boston College and then there, yeah, studied finance and philosophy and basically I worked for that fund in Cincinnati, you know, I guess like while I was. During my freshman year and all that sort of stuff.

And then I also, I guess from there went worked at this private equity fund. So again, similar approach, reached out cold to a bunch of people, see who's looking for someone to be an investment analyst. And basically landed a job with a special situations private equity fund in Chicago. And so I did the summers there.

And then also I actually worked through the school year. I was putting myself through school, so earning money was high on my list. Basically worked at this fund the whole time and it was really cool. We worked on all these very unique deals.

We operated all across the capital structure. Like it was very unique types of deals and investing and that sort of stuff. But you know, essentially I guess had this entrepreneurial yearning that's going on the whole time and that sort of thing. But like at the time very much just focused on working a lot and you know, just learning, I guess the.

The trade of the special situations investment world.

[00:08:52 - 00:08:57]

Host: Great. And then how does that evolve into the acquisition of a doggy daycare?

[00:08:57 - 00:10:19]

Guest A: Like I graduated 2020 and so I guess a lot of stuff, you know, going around that time frame. But you know, what I did was I had started this software company in college with a professor, basically it was, you know, the original idea was it was sort of like decision making software for like life science, like investing decisions almost. And so I have basically started that I'm working this private equity job as well, coming out of graduation and, and then one of the guys that I had met, you know, in Chicago, I guess while going there and you know, worked in the investment field as well, had this idea for basically buying this dog daycare business that you know, he had seen for sale and that sort of stuff locally. And it was an idea that was like very exciting.

I think to me he had actually gone and you know, acquired some small businesses in the past, but nothing in that, in that industry. And so basically he and I kind of start talking about that and I was really just like, I would say like head over heels with that idea because to me one of the things I didn't like about you know, working in like the investment world was I felt like I was always one step away from the action, right. So I felt like I was never actually getting in there and like working hands on, on the things that I wanted to do. And so I guess at that point I'm basically working the finance job, working a lot of hours there trying to build this software company and then working on this deal for this like dog daycare that has come for sale as well.

So it was a bit of a nuts year.

[00:10:20 - 00:10:34]

Host: So you got a lot going on. You're working in finance, the PE fund firm, you've got your software startup and now this, this doggy daycare project. How does this all shake out?

[00:10:35 - 00:11:14]

Guest A: Yeah, so basically I guess there was like a one year period where I'm juggling all three of these and like we, we close on the, the dog daycare in December of, of 2020. And so I guess that's almost, you know, I guess like halfway through like the first year and so basically juggling all these different things and not, not don't recommend, you know, necessarily that. That was quite, quite a, you know, interesting stretch of my life as far as like that was a ton of work. But, but yeah, essentially like go and do that.

And then at that point I basically waited until like I had done my first year, got the first year, you know, bonus, all that sort of stuff. And then I'm like, I'm just going to shift and focus, you know, now on the entrepreneurial side of the things.

[00:11:14 - 00:11:17]

Host: And what did ownership of that doggy daycare look like? Just you.

[00:11:17 - 00:12:28]

Guest A: And so it was me and then basically three other partners. And in the beginning we were all essentially, you know, dividing and conquering because we all had, you know, day jobs and that sort of stuff. And so at the beginning, that was kind of the idea where it's like, okay, we're going to start this thing, you know, on the side, and basically, you know, we're all going to kind of chip in. So it's like, you know, one of us was, you know, managing, like, the people side of things.

One of us was doing marketing, one of us was doing, you know, accounting. And so it's like everyone was doing these little. These little pieces, and we actually kept rocking that for a little, little while. But for me, the story is, I guess, one where it's like I was gradually spending more and more and more time.

It's ultimately like going full time on it and that sort of stuff. But yeah, at the beginning, it was very much like we're all kind of chipping in. We're all there if something breaks in the middle of the night. And, you know, I mean, I remember like, H vac systems going down, like day before Christmas or something like that.

And it's like you're on the phone, you're trying to, like, get everything's, like, going. And like, luckily it all stayed warm because we, you know, still had one up and running. But we're worried, you know, the strain on that. So, you know, just times like that where it's just like all these things going on and, you know, we're all kind of just dividing and conquering.

[00:12:28 - 00:12:37]

Host: So you had three balls in the air. Doggy daycare software and PE firm. You let PE firm go. You're still doing software for a while, right?

[00:12:37 - 00:12:37]

Guest A: You.

[00:12:37 - 00:12:40]

Host: You give us just a couple seconds on that.

[00:12:40 - 00:13:33]

Guest A: Yeah, for sure. So basically, it's like the first location that, you know, that we bought, you know, I. I had that, and then we actually acquired the second location. And right around, like, it was literally the same month that the second location was acquired that I left the PE job and that sort of stuff.

And then from there, you know, worked for, I guess, another couple of years on the software thing. At that point, I definitely ratcheted up my amount of time that I spent on, you know, the dog daycare stuff, because I had a lot more control over my schedule. Right. It's like, I'm not on, like, you know, in meetings all day, and I was, you know, I ran that company, so it's like I could really set it.

And so at that point, it's like, I feel like I went like, halftime probably, like, you know, as Far as that. And I still working a lot of hours, but I'm basically at that point spending a lot more on the dog daycares at that point. And then there was the final one. Once, you know, got out of that business, that, that was the point where I went full time on it.

[00:13:34 - 00:13:35]

Host: When you got out of the software business.

[00:13:35 - 00:13:36]

Guest A: Exactly.

[00:13:38 - 00:15:09]

Host: Buying a small business sounds simple. Find a company, due diligence, get a loan, close. In reality, you wear every hat just to get the deal done. And then the moment you close, you have to throw those deal making skills out the window and learn how to operate.

You shouldn't have to rebuild this infrastructure from scratch and you definitely shouldn't do it alone. That's why Walker Deibel created Acquisition Lab. What started as an accelerator has expanded into a complete ecosystem for acquisition entrepreneurs. Over six years, the lab's 1,200 members have acquired over a billion dollars in businesses.

The Lab puts everything under one roof. An active community, deal reviews, post close services, and a dedicated fund helping experienced operators buy larger businesses. If you're serious about buying a business, come see why Lab members have a 40% success rate. Learn more in the show notes or@accentlab.com acquiringminds so in these early days, why don't you give us a picture of the acquisition itself?

That first or the first two, if the second one came on really quickly. What did that look like? How big was this business? How did the four of you split it up?

Let's unpack it some.

[00:15:09 - 00:16:39]

Guest A: Yeah, definitely. So as far as the split, basically, you know, Split it up 25, 25, 25, you know, across everyone. So we each had a 25%, you know, share of that where basically the idea is like, hey, you know, we're all going to be investing time and, you know, and money into these businesses and that sort of stuff. And so that was the split as far as that location.

It was an interesting time because obviously we were buying these like right during like at least the first one was like right in the middle of like all the COVID stuff going on. And so, you know, for that year that had just ended, I think they had done about probably about 200 of EBITDA and then I think like the year before it was like a touch higher or whatnot. That was kind of like a more of a trough point for them. The deal itself was about like 1.1 million and about half of that was the real estate and about half of that was the business.

We, we buy both actually for our locations and that sort of stuff. And then all in. We were, we were in that at about five times as far as the, the valuation on that one and margin profile, and that was like quite high. So I think the, you know, EBITDAR margins were probably 50% or around that at the time.

And this was like even during COVID or whatnot. So a lot of operating leverage in these businesses. But yeah, essentially that's what it looked like. So about 1.1.

About, you know, 200 earnings at the time and probably a little bit higher than that when you adjust for some of the COVID stuff.

[00:16:40 - 00:16:44]

Host: Let's unpack this. Brendan, first of all, where is the business? Where is all this happening and where are you?

[00:16:44 - 00:17:07]

Guest A: This is in the greater Chicago area. So this was like, I guess, like really like an hour 15. Like I lived in the, in the city at the time, so it was like an hour and 15 supposedly drive for me. It was, it was much longer sometimes, depending how traffic.

And you know, the first day that we, we bought it, actually we got stuck in this snowstorm coming in. So that was a bit of an adventure. But. But yeah, it was like an hour 15 away from where I was living in Chicago at the time.

[00:17:07 - 00:17:15]

Host: Okay, great. Okay. So it was a business that did. You said about 200 or so of earnings.

[00:17:15 - 00:17:16]

Guest A: Yeah.

[00:17:16 - 00:17:19]

Host: And it sold for 1.2, you said.

[00:17:19 - 00:17:23]

Guest A: Yeah, 1. I think 1.15 million is like 1.

[00:17:23 - 00:17:30]

Host: 1.15. So kind of a 5X. Yeah, half of that is allocated to the business itself and half to the real estate.

[00:17:30 - 00:17:31]

Guest A: Yep.

[00:17:32 - 00:18:03]

Host: So we're going to return to real estate and how they. They feature in your deals directly in a minute, but just on the earnings. So for four guys, I mean, 200 or 250 in earnings is, is. Is not a lot for a single acquisition entrepreneur, let alone four guys.

Now if you're fresh out of college, I mean, because ways that's only 50,000 bucks ahead. Now if you're fresh out of college, $50,000 a year might feel like a lot more than it does if you're, you know, deep into your 20s or God forbid, have a family and a mortgage.

[00:18:03 - 00:18:04]

Guest A: Yes.

[00:18:04 - 00:18:16]

Host: And so how, how are you? But, but also you're all doing other things. So this is almost a learning experience. Slash side hustle, slash, slash, slash.

Like it's not, it's not the be all and end all of your careers.

[00:18:16 - 00:18:17]

Guest A: Yes.

[00:18:17 - 00:18:23]

Host: So how did you think about that number, which from all of us looking in, seems very, very small.

[00:18:23 - 00:18:57]

Guest A: Totally. And the other piece of it too is that it's like we wanted Every dollar that we, like, were generated. Like, we were never ones where it's like, oh, we're going to, like, take, like, we never paid ourselves. So it was just all going into, like, future acquisitions and, like, improvements to the facility and stuff.

And to this day, it's like, I don't know, I take, like, a very modest, like, salary from the business. You know, all things considered, I just want to continue investing into these businesses, whether that's new locations or, like, all the different organic growth ideas that we have and that sort of stuff. So that was part of it, too. And one of the things I really liked at the time about having a day job where it's like, there's no pressure as far as, like, taking money out of the business, which is great.

[00:18:57 - 00:18:59]

Host: And then what did your investment

[00:19:01 - 00:19:01]

Guest A: from

[00:19:01 - 00:19:09]

Host: the four of you look like to acquire this business? Was it an SBA loan? How is that structured? And how much did each of you put in?

I guess you each put in a quarter of the equity required, but Please tell us.

[00:19:09 - 00:19:56]

Guest A: Yeah, exactly. So, like, the debt on it was about 90%, which is, like, essentially, like, we've done, like, the. The 7A program and things, like. And we did the, like, the full, like, you know, 90% leverage on it.

And so I guess the other 10 would be, what, like, I guess, like 115. And then that was split up kind of like four different ways and whatnot. So that's. That's essentially what we did.

And then from there, we've done kind of like some of the, like, expansion loans to the point where, like, now we're, you know, we're. We're capped off. You know, we're at the cap, I guess, of the SBA program and whatnot. So now it's, like, either internally financed or, you know, we did, like, a commercial real estate loan on one a couple years ago or whatnot.

But, yeah, to start, we were all in on that sba. We use live oak, and I don't really like them, but that's. That's been the approach as far as that.

[00:19:57 - 00:20:11]

Host: Great. And so you're in this business, the four of you, you're kind of splitting duties. Each. Each is the.

Is the. You know, you got the head of people, you got the head of marketing, head of ops and so on. And then you quickly find deal number two is what it was. Walk us through that one real quick.

[00:20:11 - 00:21:36]

Guest A: Yeah, so deal number two, we find very soon after. I mean, I think we started looking at that one, like, very soon after closing, and that one ultimately closed. In June of 2021. So I guess that was, you know, seven months after we closed on the first one.

That one was actually a very similar profile. So again, like Covid at the time. So the numbers are like, a little all over, but, you know, I would say, like, that one was also, you know, generally around like 200 of. Of EBITDA.

I mean, it depends. Like, they were a little less than that, actually, during the year immediately, like the 12 months after Covid or whatnot. But, you know, roughly, you know, bouncing around, I would say, like the, you know, the 200 range essentially, with that one, and then the purchase price on that one was 1.1. So very similar pricing and then again very similar, where almost half the value is real estate, almost half the values on the, on the business.

And so, you know, that, that's, that's, you know, that one was a very similar profile, actually a very different facility as far as, like, if you looked at them, they look very different. The first one had, like, nine acres, and it was kind of like out in a part of the area where it's like almost the, the border of the suburbs in the country. And then this one was kind of in a, in a, In a college city. And so a little bit more if you're just, you know, I guess normal in the, you know, in the suburbs, in the city area and that sort of stuff.

But, like, from a financial perspective, they were very similar.

[00:21:37 - 00:21:42]

Host: Yeah. Yeah. And were you able to buy the second one with no additional equity? 100% financed.

[00:21:43 - 00:22:11]

Guest A: That one. That one was like, because we did the expansion program with the sba. And so essentially it's like, I think there was maybe a modest, like, equity injection that we had to do or something like that, but essentially it was like very much like, you know, almost like entirely like finance, because it was like the same industry, like, similar geography and all that sort of stuff. So that, that program's been really nice for us as well.

But I think there was a. I'm trying to remember the exact number of it, but, like, maybe a very modest equity injection, but nothing. Nothing crazy.

[00:22:12 - 00:22:31]

Host: Great, Brendan. Now let's hear two features of the, of this business type, this industry overall, and have you explain them to us. First, we heard you say that the net margins are eye popping, at least at that single facility. I don't know if that, if that scales, but.

What did you say, 50%?

[00:22:32 - 00:22:52]

Guest A: Yeah, yeah. On that facility. Yeah. And that's like our, I guess, like, it's like EBITDAR or whatever, because, like, for us, since we own the real estate, it's like we're not.

I mean, like, obviously we have like, an OPCO and a propco and that sort of stuff, but, like, I kind of view the all in combined. So part of it is because we own the real estate, but part of it, too, is that there's very real, you know, operating leverage in. In these businesses, just given the way.

[00:22:54 - 00:22:59]

Host: Sorry, Brennan. So what is the R and EBITDAR and what's the up. The point of that measure?

[00:22:59 - 00:23:40]

Guest A: Yeah, so the R in that would be rent. That would be like your. Your rent payment. And so essentially the point of that measure, I mean, similar to ebitda, where you're trying to standardize, like, the operating income that a business, you know, generates and doing that in a way where it's like, you know, obviously everyone's taxes and everyone's, you know, you know, the debt they have on a business are going to vary, so everyone adds those back.

Like, it's the same principle, but just for rent. Because especially for, like, you know, business like ours, obviously people can, you know, if you own the real estate, there's, like, you know, ways people can approach that, and all those rates are different, especially when you own the real estate. So essentially, it's just a way to separate all that noise. It's like, hey, what does this thing actually generate as far as, like, operational earnings?

[00:23:41 - 00:23:43]

Host: Great, great. Okay, thank you.

[00:23:43 - 00:23:43]

Guest A: Sure.

[00:23:43 - 00:23:46]

Host: And. And we are going to hear more about real estate here.

[00:23:46 - 00:23:46]

Guest A: Sweet.

[00:23:46 - 00:23:56]

Host: So, okay, so EBITDAR of these businesses. So. So obviously rent is going to be a cost of these businesses. But you're saying ebitdar is like 50%.

[00:23:56 - 00:23:56]

Guest A: Yeah.

[00:23:56 - 00:24:16]

Host: So if you, if you exclude rent. Okay, yeah. And, and, and I wouldn't have guessed that. I just, you know, they're small businesses, and generally we're looking at 20% is kind of like a very broad rule of thumb for small businesses overall.

So this category is actually more profitable than your typical small business. Why is that, do you think?

[00:24:17 - 00:26:26]

Guest A: I think part of it is that I think it's a pretty complex business model. I mean, it's one of these things where I feel like on the surface when people, like, look at it, it's like, oh, like, you know, this seem like you're playing with dogs. I mean, that's like, one of the things that, like, you get a lot. But, you know, I would say it's a complicated business model where essentially, for us, the name of the game is we want to be like, the trusted community partner for, like, pet parents.

And so for us, it's like what that means is that there's one place that you can do your boarding, you can do your daycare, you can do your grooming, you know, training, sometimes even we will basically put all those services under one roof. And because of that, you know, there's an ability where you're basically, you know, selling additional services to someone and you have kind of your, you know, it's like you're not going to have a second front desk just because you have a second line of business. And so as far as, like the operational, you know, leverage side of it, really what you want to do is like, have a larger facility and grow it so that you can, you know, basically have those fixed costs that stay steady. And I think that's one of the reasons that, you know, margins are good.

But the other side of that is that it's very complicated. It's a tough business model. I mean, we're open 365 days a year. You know, we've got over 100 employees total across it.

There's always something going on. You're dealing with, you know, people's pets, their family members, right? I mean, and there's just always things where it's like, you know, if, you know, if something happens and it's, you know, 9pm, 10pm at night, it's like you're doing it. It's like really different, I would say, versus some other businesses where there's a little bit more of a, you know, natural balance in there.

And I guess the other part of it is essentially you're running business models that are similar, right? You're selling to the same pet parent. But, you know, it's like, in a way, you're running a daycare, you're running a hotel, and you're running a barbershop, like, all under one roof. And so I think those are kind of the, the pros and cons of it.

But it's like, I think that to me is the reason why, you know, because I think the margins have been like that, you know, and obviously there's, there's people that run drastically below those. I mean, it's, you know, you really do have to make sure you're, you're growing your business and, you know, kind of doing best practices and all these sorts of things. But that's, I would say, historically why it's looked like that, in my opinion.

[00:26:26 - 00:26:58]

Host: But so these businesses, the fixed costs here are basically the team, the employees that are working the facility, and then the rent cost, which may or May not be there. We'll get there. But so if you can stack more services in, under the kind of the same roof, generally your team kind of has capacity to deliver the. The same team can.

Can. Has the capacity to deliver additional services. So if you can offer a bunch of more services, your profits start. I mean, your, your margins start expanding.

[00:26:58 - 00:26:59]

Guest A: Yeah, exactly.

[00:26:59 - 00:27:01]

Host: A lot. Because the team is already paid for.

[00:27:01 - 00:27:45]

Guest A: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And it's like, and yes, it's like you do want to make sure as you're offering these things that you're, you know, staffing most importantly, in a safe way and all that sort of things. And so it's one of those things where it's like take on, you know, there is incremental, you know, time and investment into the teams that like, we're always making and that sort of stuff. And generally as we roll new services out, a lot of times that's things where it's like these are growth opportunities where someone can get a raise.

So like, there are costs with adding them on. But I guess, you know, the stuff that stays the same a lot. I mean, your utilities largely fixed. Right.

It's like any of the real estate, whether it's rent or you owning the real estate, like, all those things kind of stay the same. Your software costs, you know, all that sort of thing. It's like those stay the same. And so really it's like kind of a name of the game is like you want to make sure you're definitely running with some good scale.

[00:27:45 - 00:28:01]

Host: Okay. And then the real estate again. So how you, you buy the real estate with the, the businesses as a rule in this industry. I also heard you say that, like, it seems across the industry there's a 50, 50 split, owners owning the real estate versus renting the real estate.

[00:28:01 - 00:28:02]

Guest A: Yeah.

[00:28:02 - 00:28:05]

Host: Give us, tell us what we need to understand about real estate in this business.

[00:28:05 - 00:30:50]

Guest A: Gosh. So, like, I think the genesis of this industry was that a lot of it was like very much like in the beginning you had these businesses where it's like essentially like someone would like, essentially just like set up like a building at their house, like in an area that a lot of times was like more out in the country. And like, they would, you know, they would run the business that way and that sort of thing. And so like, there were, there's still quite a bit of, you know, places that operate like that.

But as I think as the industry has become like larger and larger and it's become more professionalized and that sort of stuff, I think at the Beginning it was still one of these things where like people took that mindset of like, like we're operating like dog daycares, right? It's like you're going to build this thing out in a very custom way. I mean, if you came to one of our facilities, it's like, I mean there's somewhere. It's like we even have like auto filling water bowls where like, you know, it's like set up.

That way you've got like all these like suites set up. You've got indoor play areas, massive H vac systems to make sure that the air is recycled to keep the dogs healthy and that sort of thing. And so it's really different than like just, just, you know, strip mall or something like that and just like jumping into there. And so, you know, that's for, for us, the very important reason why we like to own the real estate is because I want to make a lot of, you know, you have this like, you might have Astroturf, right, that, that can be quite expensive these days and that sort of thing to make sure that the outdoor areas are nice.

And so I think part of it is that like, you know, one sometimes there's a lot of investments that you need to make into these facilities. And so I never want to like capex decision to like, you know, that's going to make either the dog's life better, our employees life better to hinge upon like, well, do I actually own the building? Because if I don't, then maybe, you know, people don't want to make those decisions and stuff. So for us it's an easy way where it's like, no, no.

If there's anything we can do to make any like the pets experience better or the employees, like, we're going to just go do that. And we do that all the time. But the other side of it I would say too is that we've run into, you know, people where, you know, if you have the wrong landlord, right, and that sort of stuff, they know you've made a lot of investments. They know there's not a lot of other places you can go.

And you know, someone who would, you know, an unscrupulous person, I guess could really take advantage of you in that situation. And I've seen that happen, unfortunately to people. So we just want to stay far away from that where like the landlord has just a ton of power over you and can just jack your rent. So that's the other side of it, I would say.

And then the final piece is that there you Know, there are some zoning considerations where, like, you know, we have a facility, for example, and it's the only boarding facility that is allowed in the county. You know, you can't come in and build a new one. And so if you don't own that real estate and the person decides, you know, for whatever, they don't want to renew or they don't want to renew at a reasonable rate, like, there goes your business. So I think for us, it's like, we're in this game for.

I mean, I view Argos as something I want to do for 50 years. So it's like we're in this game, and it's like I want to make sure that I, you know, can protect that thing that we're spending so much time and money and effort to build out.

[00:30:52 - 00:31:16]

Host: It sounds like essentially a strategic. There's a lot of strategic value in the real estate. Being able to control your own destiny and removing all of these outside pressures that could affect your business. What does it do to the valuation of the businesses or how you structure the acquisition terms?

You touched on it earlier, but give us the kind of deal mechanics. Is the real estate part of the deal? Is it separate?

[00:31:16 - 00:32:47]

Guest A: What does that look like? Yeah, so we always buy it as part of the deal. And I think, you know, for me, I think the biggest thing it does as far as, like, what deals we'll look at is if there's areas where the real estate value is extremely high. Those usually just aren't great candidates for our model and that sort of stuff.

I mean, we're very much, like, focused, I would say, on the Midwest as far as our radius. And that's both for, like, an actual operational reason, but at the same time, too. It's like, if you're going to buy the real estate as well, and the real estate's going to be 90% of a deal's value. It's like.

And you look at what you're actually going to earn on this new investment, it's like, it's probably not going to be that great. And so you need to find it in an area where, like, real estate values are sensible and that sort of stuff. But, yeah, we. Essentially, the way I look at it when I'm evaluating a deal is I'm looking at, like, what is the actual earnings power of this business?

You know, we've been at about five times all in, you know, as far as multiple. And so that's an area that we're very comfortable with. And so to me, it's like, if There is a good business and they've got a good reputation in the community. They're doing right by the dogs and the people.

And we can get in that at five times. Like, we're glad to do that all day long. And then as far as like the structuring of it, like for tax reasons, obviously there are, you know, there is a split between the, you know, the, the operating company and the property company, both for tax reasons, financing reasons. I mean, there's a lot of reasons that you do that.

But so you do, you do split it up, I guess as far as like, you know, for us it's actually separate entities and, and all that sort of stuff and you know, but as far as like valuation and whether I like a business, like, I'm looking at like the all in earnings power of the business versus like separating those out.

[00:32:48 - 00:32:53]

Host: So you don't buy the real estate separate from the operating business, you buy them as a single package.

[00:32:53 - 00:32:53]

Guest A: Exactly.

[00:32:53 - 00:32:57]

Host: With, with, with SBA 7A. Or at least at this point in the story, you're doing that.

[00:32:57 - 00:32:59]

Guest A: Yes, exactly, exactly.

[00:33:00 - 00:33:11]

Host: And why not use the SBA's 504 product, which is real for real estate, and kind of separate them? Was, is there some reason to do it or not do it that way?

[00:33:11 - 00:33:55]

Guest A: I think like, so like at the time when we were doing it like originally, like I now I feel like there's like the additional, you know, there's the additional capacity as far as the SBA limit that it like opens up the door to and that sort of thing. My memory was at the time that that wasn't part of it. I think they like counted against each other and that sort of thing. And so like we just did like a 7A program and then like it entitled you to have a longer, you know, term on it's like a 25 year term and that sort of thing, which was great.

And so you got a lot of the benefit from that where, like, you know, if I knew what I knew today about like where the SBA has gone as far as splitting those up, it's like, yeah, we probably would have like done that back then, but at the time it was kind of like almost like in one pocket, out to the other type deal and that sort of stuff. But for anyone looking at it now, definitely split it between this.

[00:33:55 - 00:34:06]

Host: So and so you were getting 25. How long was the, were the amortization schedules on these loans for the first two businesses, given that the real estate was fully half of the acquisition?

[00:34:07 - 00:34:12]

Guest A: The, the, the first two were both 25 year terms on. So yeah, great. Yeah.

[00:34:12 - 00:34:13]

Host: Well that's a. A great benefit.

[00:34:13 - 00:34:16]

Guest A: Yes, it is a great benefit. It's a very good benefit.

[00:34:18 - 00:35:33]

Host: Looking to secure an SBA loan to buy a business? Meet Pioneer Capital Advisory your go to partner for sophisticated buyers who want deals closed quickly and on the best possible terms. The Pioneer team has closed more than 100 SBA loans, averaging timelines well below industry standards. Founder and owner Matthias Smith Smith and COO Valerie Stash bring over two decades of SBA lending experience.

Matthias and Valerie have built a team that meticulously works your deal from underwriting to close. You'll have a full bench working on your behalf, sales associates who streamline onboarding M and a financial analysts who craft investor grade lender decks and an operations team that manages every step of the closing process with institutional level rigor. Pioneer is not a single person, but your true deal team. Visit pioneercap.com or click the link in the notes.

Great. Thank you for all that. Brendan. Let's return to the plot.

So you've made these first two acquisitions. How's it going? Take us on from there.

[00:35:33 - 00:37:33]

Guest A: Yeah, so it was going really well. Like, one of the things that was pretty funny, to be honest, was that like, so like Covid was actually one of the main risks that like we were like, everyone was worried about at the time. I remember it was like one of these things where it's like no one was buying stuff, especially like dog daycare. So it's like, oh, is travel going to return back to normal?

And it's like my perspective was very much like, yes, I think it will and that sort of thing. But it's like, I don't know, it's funny I guess today to like remember those times because it was not like that obvious, I guess back then as far as like how long that would take, like how long would like your boarding revenue be down for and that sort of stuff. And so we were going out and really buying those with kind of like one of those things where it's like, you know, one of those, like, you know, pray for the, you know, pray for the best and prepare for the worst type thing where it's like, we need to make sure we're, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna be okay here. And so that was always like the thing we were focused on.

But turns out during COVID everyone went and bought a dog, right? And so all of a sudden the pet population just exploded across the country and you have all sorts of people, you know, buying dogs and you know, needing these services and that sort of thing. And then what happens is you have some time, you know, companies having the return to work, and all of a sudden I bought a dog and I need someone that's going to look after the dog and love it the way that I do. And so now people are out and they're looking for daycare and that sort of stuff.

And so, you know, basically it was one of these things where like, all of a sudden we're just seeing like a lot more dogs just coming through the doors than like we had ever seen. You know, we're investing into the facilities, making improvements and that sort of stuff. I mean, very operational things, right? It's like we're just, you know, redoing the way we structure things, adding on new fenced areas, adding on new su.

Basically we're in growth mode, right, and expanding and that sort of stuff. And, you know, that was a very fun period where you, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, oh, you feel so smart because like, all of a sudden, like, it's like, yeah, like your revenue goes up. It's like, of course, and stuff like that. And, you know, and it wasn't, it wasn't that easy or whatever, but like, certainly at the time it was something where it, like, it.

When we started, it was like a very good time. I mean, people say like, 2021 was probably the best year ever for like dog daycare. 2021, 2022 was the best of times.

[00:37:33 - 00:37:38]

Host: And at that point, are you still all four of you just part timing it?

[00:37:38 - 00:39:13]

Guest A: Yeah, I would say, like, at that point, like, we're still doing that, but like, I had, you know, started, I guess, like, I would say, like. And again, this was part of the flexibility that I had from like, the software, like company and like doing my own thing, which it's like, you know, I was working a ton, but it's like I can split time up, you know, between these things and whatnot. And so, like, I'm spending more time on it. But, you know, we're, we're still, you know, running it that way.

And then the other cool thing that happened is we were doing that is we're just talking to different people, you know, that are, you know, working, you know, in the broader Argos ecosystem. And it's, it's cool because this has become now, I think, a hallmark of what we do. But at the time we have people where it's like, oh, like, I'm doing this marketing task for my facility. I know you guys have another one.

Like, would you like me to do it for them? And like, oh, yes, we would love to do that. Like, we'll make sure it's worth your time and that sort of stuff. And so we start seeing more of that where essentially we're forming, I would say, like these, the very early parts of like, we're going to have multiple of these and we want people that can help to specialize.

And so not only was it, you know, the partnership and that sort of stuff, like doing some of these things, but we actually start having some employees that want to help out with some of the, like, more like, you know, tasks across the facility. And so that was very cool because that was like, big weight off of my back. And you know, it's one of those things where it's like, okay, we're doing, you know, like, we do these like, parties every month for the dogs and that sort of stuff. And there's marketing and it's a whole fun process and that sort of stuff.

But we had someone that was like, like very passionate about that. And to this day still, you know, I guess works on a lot of that sort of stuff. And it's, you know, and that's been super helpful. So I would say that started entering part of it, but a very, it was very much still like grind time and like dividing and conquering.

[00:39:14 - 00:39:35]

Host: And so some of your employees were kind of offering to do what they did at location A at location B as well. And so you started getting an inkling of how kind of a shared services model could work where, where one person could, you know, you could kind of scale across some sort of whatever at location A could work for locations BCD and E as well.

[00:39:35 - 00:39:36]

Guest A: Exactly, exactly.

[00:39:37 - 00:39:40]

Host: And so when do you decide to go full time, Brendan?

[00:39:41 - 00:41:23]

Guest A: So basically after we made like the next acquisition, like that's where really it like starts like entering my mind this idea because that one was like a two pack location and very drastically changed like the scale that we were operating at. That was our big, you know, deal that we had done. And so at that point it is one of these things where it's like. And I think we probably had at that point maybe like, I don't know, like 70 employees or something like that.

We had four locations because it was a two pack. And that's really where it starts to, you know, be like, okay, like we're all spending a lot more, you know, time on this. And it starts to be like, okay, we can't keep doing this, like moonlight thing forever and all that sort of stuff. And I had, had basically been ramping up, you know, time that I was spending on that and that sort of thing.

But you know, whatever you want some life right outside of like working. And basically at that point it was a lot of like, I'm just, I'm working on my sophomore business, I'm working on the pet care stuff like all day and that sort of stuff. And so that was really where the idea starts taking hold. And it would be like the end of 2024 before like I, you know, shifted into that role.

But that was where the idea initially really started taking hold. And we were having discussions too where it's like, like one of us really needs to go in there and just like focus on this full time because like, there's a lot of stuff going on and like we were getting everything done and that sort of stuff. But it's also confusing too where it's like for the managers, you have like four different people to go to and it's like, who does what again? And all that sort of stuff.

And like, we didn't want it to be confusing. And you know, I very much with that entrepreneurial bent that I had for me, I was super excited about the idea of just like getting in there and then just like, you know, taking it, it, you know, to the next leg of growth. So.

[00:41:23 - 00:41:29]

Host: Okay, and so what do you guys decide now at. At the sort of end of 24, early 25, four acquisitions in.

[00:41:29 - 00:43:55]

Guest A: Yeah. So basically we, we sit down and like for like three days we just sit down and basically are just like going over it where it's like, okay, this is like, you know, very happy with like how this is all going, but like someone really needs to go and like go and do this like full time and that sort of stuff. And it's kind of like one of those things where I think, you know, we're trying to figure out what is the next, you know, leg of this journey look like and that sort of stuff. And we're kind of going over, you know, all the different learnings that we have and that sort of thing.

And I guess at that point we're like, yep, someone is going to need to go, you know, full time on this because like, I guess the central points that came out of our meeting was sort of like these are very unique community based assets that like all of them are a little different. We don't standardize everything when we go and get a location. So there's always a little bit of customization. To them.

And part of that means that there's like, you know, more work that goes into it. But it's something where we want them to retain their unique identity and not just like standardize things 100%, like a lot of rollups do. And so, you know, that led to more work and that sort of stuff. And we just need someone that's like on the ground there every day and that sort of stuff.

And then also third thing was like, this isn't going to be the type of thing where it's like we just go and raise a bunch of money and then just go like, like add 50 or something over the next like 10 years or something like that. And so for us, the central thing was like, okay, well like I was very excited about that role and that sort of stuff. And that's like when those conversations, you know, started going and right around then is when we're acquiring location number five. And that's really the point where I start to get like, very, very involved in that to the point where it's like, okay, like let, I'm just gonna go and like do this full time.

Everyone was super excited about the idea because I think I had been, you know, really spending a lot, a lot of time, more and more on it. So in a way it was a very nice progression like into that. And I was way more excited about that business at that point versus the software business and that sort of stuff. And so for me, that made a lot of sense for me as a next progression on like what I wanted to do in my career and that sort of thing.

I'm the one that's running the, the operations and everything like that and doing all that sort of thing. And at that point I brought on two regional managers as well, pretty shortly thereafter from, you know, from within. One of them was the best performing manager at one of our locations. One of them was a previous owner that wanted to come work for us.

So then we're really starting to build that team, which has been cool.

[00:43:56 - 00:44:20]

Host: And Brendan, when you become the, the, the main full time person on this now, basically the CEO of this nascent rollup are, does the cap table change? Do you, do you push for more equity or do you guys say stay equally split, 25 across the four of you? 25% across the four of you, and you just now see your salary increase because you're, you've, you know, to compensate you for your time.

[00:44:20 - 00:45:25]

Guest A: Yeah, exactly. So like really like focused on like the, the ladder. So like we like, we kept the equity split the same and everything like that. Because I think we're all, you know, very happy with, like, the partnership and that sort of thing.

And then really, for me, it's like, you know, whatever. It's like, still a younger guy, but, like, especially then. And it's like, hey, like, for me, it's like, you know, pulling like, a salary or that sort of stuff and like, making sure that I can, like, build up, up, you know, my life. And that sort of stuff has really been like, more of the focus.

And then obviously, as we continue adding locations on, the idea is that that continues to ratchet up and up and that sort of thing. And so that is really more of, you know, the focus is that. And then just kind of continuing to grow the whole pie and that sort of stuff. And I think part of it too, is like, you know, we're all, like, very good friends that have, like, known each other for a long time and that sort of stuff.

And so for me, I'm like, this is something I'm excited to do, and it's not just about, like, maximizing my, like, slice of the pie or whatever. And so, you know, it wasn't really even something that I, like, really considered, to be honest. I was more just like, yeah, like, as long as I'm like, you know, have something where I can, like, cover my cost of living and that sort of stuff and like, continue working on this fun stuff, like, I'm. I'm.

I'm happy about that.

[00:45:26 - 00:45:34]

Host: And does your CEO salary become something much more market rate, something much more livable or large?

[00:45:35 - 00:46:40]

Guest A: Yeah, yeah, it's. I. Basically, for me, like, it's in. In the way that we've split it up, I would say is like, you know, almost more similar to like, you know, there's like a base thing and then bonus, basically tied to like, how as we're growing and that sort of stuff.

And so, you know, happy with that, where it's like, it's enough where, you know, I'm comfortable and. And can save and all that sort of stuff. And. And continue to do those sorts of things with life.

You know, it's like I'm at this point in my life where it's like, I'm, you know, looking to get a house here soon and all that sort of stuff. And so, you know, and then basically the thought is that continues to go up as basically we scale and all that sort of thing. And so. But we didn't want to set it up in something that was like, crazy, excessive.

That's not something that I would want either because that pulls more money out of the business. So for me it's like, yeah, I do want to save money. I do want to be comfortable. I do want to like be able to like, you know, go on a vacation and all that sort of stuff.

But it doesn't need to be anything like insane because frankly, if I pulled out, you know, a ton, it's like, okay, well where am I going to invest this money that's going to earn better rates than I feel like, you know, can. Can be done by continuing to grow our businesses and taking those to the next level too. So that's part of the way I look at it.

[00:46:41 - 00:46:42]

Host: How old are you now, Brendan?

[00:46:43 - 00:46:44]

Guest A: 27.

[00:46:44 - 00:46:46]

Host: 27. And where are you living now?

[00:46:46 - 00:46:48]

Guest A: Cincinnati. Yeah.

[00:46:48 - 00:46:57]

Host: Okay. And one other kind of thing to call out here is that you started way back when you were 21.

[00:46:57 - 00:46:57]

Guest A: Yes.

[00:46:59 - 00:47:09]

Host: And you were much more of an investor or at least going back even even further, your interest was as an investor and now you're a hand sturdy operator.

[00:47:09 - 00:47:10]

Guest A: Yeah.

[00:47:10 - 00:47:21]

Host: Is. Is there something to be learned from that trajectory or is that just the way things unfolded or, or what? Because it is, it is definitely different. A different life and skill set and career path.

[00:47:21 - 00:49:48]

Guest A: Yeah, I, I mean I think the thing to be learned from it is it's like if you're someone that's like on the invest. Because I definitely, like, I was very much like, I viewed myself as an investor. The books I read were investing books. Like, I mean it was a huge part of my life.

I mean it was really a huge part of my life. And then I guess it was one of these things where it's like I just still had that entrepreneurial bug. Right. And I think it's like the same thing.

Like when I was like younger I had all these like business ideas and I was always hustling around doing like this or that and like, like that was always something that I missed. And so for me, I just, I think it was one something where it's like it wasn't like overnight, but I just gradually leaned like more and more and more where to today it's like I feel I am much more like an entrepreneur and operator than I am an investor. And it's like, yes, like we're doing like a roll up. Right.

And so it's like there's investing. Right. And like that's a very heavy part of what we do is like looking for the right facilities and that sort of stuff. Those are investment decisions.

And I feel like, like, you know, because of the work that I did before, I have a very good lens on making those decisions, which I think is a, is a big aid. But like, I don't know, like the things I'm really, you know, excited about these days, I'd say a lot of times are more around like how do we, you know, how do we grow the existing locations that we have, how do we add on new service lines, how do we better market, how do we do all like that sort of stuff, how do we create more opportunities for our team, promote people up to like do these things? Like it's very much more the role of someone that, that's operating a company and like, I don't know, I haven't looked back. Like I way more enjoy day to day what I do now because the other piece too is it's like, okay, like you're doing your Excel model and it's like what's the location going to grow next year?

And you put your input in there and that sort of, that's way different than like coming in and like having the knowledge where it's like, you know, I know what it would cost us to acquire a customer in this facility and that sort of stuff. I know the services that we can offer them. I know our staffing model. Like there's a way richer way that you, you view the actual operations of the business and which deals make sense and don't.

And like there's probably some that we've done where it's like from a pure investment lens, it's like, you know, I mean, it's funny I think about things now where it's like what are the, you know, the different, I hate to say the word but the synergies that we can have and that sort of stuff because like those were so fluffy and that sort of stuff back in the day. But now I actually know what those things are for those locations. I know what my team can do. I have the, you know, amazing team, super blessed with that and I know what we can do when we, you know, when we have a location that we're looking at that and it's just really a much sharper view of what actually works and doesn't than I had previously.

[00:49:48 - 00:50:14]

Host: Fantastic. And when you guys made this decision that the business was too big now for you guys to continuing doing it part time, somebody needed to step in as effectively CEO. You did that. Did the, Was there like a new or, or formally crystallized long term vision that took shape then or was it still just sort of like reacting to what the Business needed at that moment and then you just keep iterating and evaluating as you win.

[00:50:14 - 00:52:59]

Guest A: Yeah, I mean it's, it's almost like, I'd say there's like a mix of both where it's like for me it's like the vision that I really, you know, came into this and continue to have, I would say is one of growth. It doesn't have to be like just buying more and more locations. I mean I've. We've seen a lot of people that they go too far on that.

Right. It's like they do too many deals where they can't integrate them. You know, they go get over their skis and that sort of stuff and we don't want to do that. So for really for us it's like I view the growth both in a very holistic way I would say where it's like, I don't know, like just the day to day operate.

Like sometimes I'm looking at, hey, there's this new service that we can offer in this market and we're going to have to invest in the facility, we're going to have to invest in the people, we're going to have to have someone promoted to come and like manage that piece of it. But like I think that that's a very good use of time. It's something our customer wants. It's another opportunity for the team.

So you know, for me it's like, it's a little bit just an effort of like let's just get better every day. Let's do something a little better that makes, you know, our customers lives better, the pet lives better, our own lives, whatever. It's, it's not just make progress and keep going. And it's like, and yes, the other part of it is it's like I do want to find good, you know, partners that want to join our platform and want to like, you know, looking to find that next phase of life for their business.

And I think we're a very good owner for those. Just in the sense that it's like we, we invest a lot in growth. We're not a like cost cutting shop by any means. But that's for us I would say the things we're the most focused on is just continued growth.

And for me I think part of that is locations. Part of that is just there's things I know we can do at our locations and transferring best practices from here to there that I know we can do all the time and I spend a lot of time on that as well. But I don't know, I mean, it's like. It's funny because, like, I don't have, like, a target in mind as far as, like, number of locations or this or that.

But what I will say is that it's like, very happy with what we're doing. And in a way it's like, like, you know, I want to build like, the. The Berkshire Hathaway for, like, pet services. So it's like any different pet care companies, whether this is, like acquiring, you know, businesses like we've done now, even some of the more ancillary pet services.

We bought up grooming and bathing shop recently, and we're very interested in a few other, you know, ancillary services we're hearing about from customers. So for me, it's almost broad in the aperture where it's like, doesn't just have to be boarding and daycare. It can really be anything that our customers are looking for and want for their pets and that sort of stuff. And.

And, you know, we're pretty open as far as, like, what those arrangements look like. And so I think we've been getting, you know, more and more inquiries from people that, you know, we've had people reaching out about, you know, wanting to sell minority stakes in their, you know, stuff. We've had, like, people that are like, outside of the boarding and daycare space, but broadly in pet care. And so we're really looking at all those.

But I would say it's like, I don't know, to me, it's like, if I listen to what we're hearing from our customers, you know, from our team and that sort of stuff, a lot of times, for me, that makes it very clear, like, which growth strategies make the most sense at this time.

[00:52:59 - 00:53:09]

Host: And so when you go full time, then what does the portfolio look like? Remind us in terms of locations, where they are, size, size of the overall portfolio, kind of give us the bullet points.

[00:53:09 - 00:54:34]

Guest A: Yeah. So at that time, like, that was like right around the time we had, like, you know, we're in the midst of integrating the fifth location and that sort of stuff. And so we're at six locations now. So it was like right around the.

The fifth one. So at that point we were five locations. I want to say we were probably, you know, 100 team members. And then we were probably at that point, I mean, it's grown since, but we were probably knocking on about, you know, $5 million of revenue across all the locations and, you know, still, you know, running, I would say, at the, you know, kind of the margins we had talked about at the beginning and that sort of stuff.

And so we've, we've grown all the locations quite a bit since we, we've bought them. Like on average I think we're 28% growth, growth per location. And EBITDA has grown, I'd say remarkably close to that number because for us it's like, you know, we're not really a cost cutting shop. A lot of times we're increasing them.

It's like we're adding on more and more stuff and that sort of thing. And so, you know, but for both of them, that's, that's kind of been our average. So we've kind of kept growing those. But just in terms of scale, we're, you know, at that point it's, we're, I'm like, I'm running a, you know, a real organization I'd say with a lot of different people, like a ton of like, you know, time with the managers, we're talking every day, all that sort of stuff.

And I did that by myself for a little while and then realized it's like, okay, we're going to need, you know, we're, I'm going to need some, some people on my team here, some operators to help with this and that sort of thing. And so that's when we brought the, you know, the two regional operations leads on.

[00:54:35 - 00:54:37]

Host: And so that was sort of first half 2025.

[00:54:38 - 00:54:40]

Guest A: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Okay.

[00:54:40 - 00:54:44]

Host: Five LOC, five locations, 5 million in revenue.

[00:54:44 - 00:54:44]

Guest A: Yep.

[00:54:44 - 00:54:46]

Host: 100 employees.

[00:54:46 - 00:54:46]

Guest A: Yep.

[00:54:46 - 00:54:48]

Host: You full time CEO.

[00:54:48 - 00:54:49]

Guest A: Yeah.

[00:54:50 - 00:54:59]

Host: The, you're doing it all yourself. Then you bring in or promote two, two managers to help you. And so now the management layer is the two of them plus you.

[00:54:59 - 00:54:59]

Guest A: Yep.

[00:54:59 - 00:55:05]

Host: And these locations are where. So we're rattle off the locations.

[00:55:05 - 00:55:33]

Guest A: Yeah. So we're, we're, we're, we're in, we're in Ohio, Michigan, Illinois and Indiana. So we're in four states and generally, I mean we look a little bit outside of those, but I would say for the most part we are focused on those states. I mean, I mean I live very close to Kentucky.

I live like, like Cincinnati obviously, you know, borders. So it's like if something's in Kentucky or Wisconsin or some of the states that border the places that we're at, like, we're very open to looking at those. But yeah, at that point or as of right now, we're in, we're in four states. Right.

[00:55:34 - 00:55:42]

Host: And then you. The only other acquisition that's taken place since first half 2025 is this grooming facility.

[00:55:42 - 00:55:42]

Guest A: Yep.

[00:55:42 - 00:55:42]

Host: Right.

[00:55:43 - 00:55:43]

Guest A: Yep.

[00:55:43 - 00:55:44]

Host: Okay.

[00:55:44 - 00:56:54]

Guest A: Yeah. And that was. That was very close by to one of our other locations. This is our location in Michigan where basically we had customers that are coming to us.

And it's like, hey, do you guys do grooming? Do you do grooming? You know, all that sort of stuff. And so we paid for an employee to go to grooming school.

That location is so busy, though, as far as, like, it's just been, you know, growing a ton and that sort of thing. That we had room for one groomer, maybe two, and that sort of stuff. And then we see a local groom shop that's been around for, you know, probably 15 years that's going for sale. And it's kind of timing lined up really well where it's like, I've got someone that's going to be graduating from there.

Here's a place with customers. A lot of our customers we actually know went there because, you know, that we didn't offer the grooming. And so we bring that on board, and it's like, perfect. This is like a very nice thing.

And so, yeah, that. That was. That was kind of that one. It's a little different than what we do, but again, like, a lot of 2025 and 2026 has been spent on just, like, things like that.

And it's like these new. New, you know, different growth initiatives, rolling out new service lines and that sort of stuff. And so that's been. That's been exciting and definitely a lot of growth, but, you know, it was almost more on the organic side versus, I mean, obviously we did have that location, but, you know, and now we're kind of back, you know, looking at a lot of different deals now, too.

[00:56:55 - 00:56:58]

Host: And so revenue today is between five and six million.

[00:56:58 - 00:57:40]

Guest A: Yeah, exactly. So we've grown. I think we're up like 12% this year so far versus the same period last year. And so.

So we're up above 5 million. And I think probably like 46%, like, EBITDAR margin on that. And I think as far as, like, end of the year, I mean, we've been continuing to grow really nicely this year, so I think that should continue for the rest of the year. And I don't know, there's a lot of other things that I'm working on as far as, like, new services and offerings that I think will continue to go there.

I mean, that's a lot of my time, I guess, is one of the themes is just pairing up what our customers want, what our team wants to do. And then just trying to of meld those things together to keep, you know, offering more value to our customers.

[00:57:41 - 00:57:44]

Host: Yeah. Well, I can feel your enthusiasm, Brendan.

[00:57:44 - 00:57:45]

Guest A: Yeah.

[00:57:45 - 00:58:33]

Host: A question back on margins and ebitdar, understanding that the whole point of EBITDAR is that, you know, some half of these facilities are owned by the. The real estate is owned by the owner, half not. And so they're paying rent. And it's just very hard to kind of standardize.

But at the same time, it. The rent or the property expense here is a core cost of the business. And so if I'm listening to this interview, considering, you know, this industry versus another industry, and I really want a good margin profile of the industry I choose, I need some way to think about it with the rent cost in there, don't I? And, and so it.

Would there be a way for you to generalize about rent and give us an EBITDA margin profile?

[00:58:33 - 00:59:23]

Guest A: Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's, you know, I would say from like the deals, like, we obviously we've looked at like a ton, a ton of deals and that sort of stuff. Like, I've seen things as low as like 8% as far as like rent as a percentage of revenue. And then I've seen like things that are like higher towards like 15, even like 18 and that sort of thing.

But it's like, I don't know if you take like 12 or something like that, it's like a very like normal range. Then it's like, okay, like, you know, you back out of like, you know, either 48, 50, you know, subtract out the 12%, you know, 36, 38 or something like EBITDA range if you like do that. And obviously it kind of depends on the rent arrangement and like who's paying like the different costs and the repair, maintenance and all that sort of stuff. But it's like, I would say that's, you know, that that's probably like a fairly healthy range if you're, if you're excluding the.

Or sorry, if you're including the rent portion.

[00:59:24 - 00:59:30]

Host: Perfect. That was exactly what I was looking for. And yeah, it holds up that that's still an incredible net margin. Number.

Number.

[00:59:30 - 00:59:31]

Guest A: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:59:31 - 00:59:32]

Host: Mid, high 30s.

[00:59:32 - 00:59:32]

Guest A: Wow.

[00:59:32 - 00:59:34]

Host: Really unusual.

[00:59:34 - 00:59:34]

Guest A: Yeah.

[00:59:34 - 01:00:07]

Host: How has this space changed over your five years in it? You know, it was kind of a little bit obscure, a little bit mom and pop. Still very mom and pop. But there's also a lot of institutional capital here, a lot of private equity money.

We're actually invested in a doggy daycare deal on the Mines capital side. And I've, I've featured other people on this podcast who have been acquired, who are, who are entrepreneurs, acquisition entrepreneurs and doggy daycares and have subsequently been acquired by private equity. So it's a hot category.

[01:00:07 - 01:00:09]

Guest A: Yeah, I mean how have you felt

[01:00:09 - 01:00:11]

Host: that or seen that or what can you say from the front lines?

[01:00:11 - 01:04:02]

Guest A: One of the most concrete things I can say is I remember the first. So the biggest conference for the like dog daycare space is in Hershey, Pennsylvania. Which is funny to me because you know, dogs and chocolate, you know, not really a great combo but like they decided to put it. So you know, I don't know why but, but anyways, the first year that we went there, I remember, I think there was one booth for like someone that was looking to like a consolidator essentially in the space, one company kind of doing that, a private equity backed player.

And it was the kind of thing where it's like, I remember just like seeing them and seeing some of the conversations with owners and people were just like puzzled where it's like one of these, where it's like, like what? Like will you do what you're buying these like huh, like what's going on here? And that sort of stuff. And then fast forward to you know, the most recent one that I went to.

And I mean there were probably like seven or eight tables of like people out there like going and doing it. And so there's definitely a lot more private equity funds in the space and that sort of thing. It's become like, I guess like a hot space and everything like that. I would say like, you know, for us I don't view it as like a bad thing, to be honest.

I mean it's one of these things where I mean it depends on the platform. There's ones that I think, you know, do a better job than others. But like a lot of what we've heard is that I think there's a trend from the institutional players in this space to try and over standardize and I get that from the perspective of like, like, you know, I think about all the different things that I do day to day and that sort of stuff because there's some custom elements to us. But I think at the end of the day like you're very community based business.

I mean it's almost similar to like, you know, I, I know of someone that you know, runs a few like, you know, child daycare businesses and that sort of stuff. And it's like you're, you're dealing with A very intimate part of people's life, like a family member. And you really got to treat it that way. And so when you come in and you overly standardize things, I think what we've seen is a lot of pushback.

And I understand that, you know, there's a broader trend of that where people, you know, don't really like that aspect of people coming in and overly standardizing things or private equity ties things or whatever the word would be. And it's like, I think that's something that we have totally swam the opposite way from, where it's like, we don't change the names. Like, we don't get rid of any of the people. We've never gotten rid of anyone.

We always keep the same team in place. We look for places that are running well and have great teams and in place, and then we're not going and, like, standardizing every, you know, this and that. The thing that I really spend the most time on is, like, the back end, you know, stuff, the admin stuff, like, freeing people up so they can spend more time with the pets and the dogs. And it's funny because as far as, like, what that has done to the industry, I mean, we get people that reach out directly now, and they're like, hey, I see you're, like, not one of the, like, XYZ large consolidators.

And, like, we're very interested. We don't want the name to change. We don't want the team to change. We want to continue, you know, someone that will invest in the name next part of this business.

And so it's become interesting where, like, we definitely have taken a different approach from people, and it's one that's probably slower, growing, probably harder. Probably, like, we're getting in there and getting dirty a lot more on the different stuff. But, like, for me, it's like, I couldn't imagine it in any other way. And I think it's become a differentiator in, like, you know, people hearing about us where, you know, people are very.

I mean, for gosh sakes, like, one of our regional managers is like, one of the previous owners of a place that we bought that, like, like, ended up wanting to come and work. So to me, it's like, in a way that's like, one of the best testimonials that I can get as someone as far as buying a business. And I just want to keep that approach alive because I think when everyone is going towards big standardization, kind of the normal playbooks that I, you know, became familiar with during the time I was working with pe, it's like if you can really double down on like the customer interaction, the uniqueness, the community part of these businesses and what made them like that in the first place. I mean, I mean, you know, one of our brands has been around since 1973.

One's been there since 1974. They've been there for a long time. And so we just really, you know, focus on that. And I would say doing that is a bit of a different approach, but it's one that's been, you know, working out for us.

[01:04:02 - 01:05:06]

Host: You know, I guess what you hope for Brendan, is that there is some sort of standardization. You can do invisible standardization, you can do behind the scenes back office stuff that gets you economies of scale or gets you benefits of having multiple locations that doesn't really touch the end customer. So obviously keep the brand in place, you keep the name in place, you keep all of the people and all the great community relationships in sense of community connection in place. But, you know, the SaaS that's running the business becomes standardized across, you know, across all five plus plus locations.

In some of the vendor, other vendor relationships you have, maybe you get some pricing power, etc. So I guess that, that, you know, and this is, I think a generalizable point. The, you know, it would, it would seem optimistically that you could have your cake and eat it too, that you could enjoy some benefits from scale from multiple acquisitions without losing the intimacy and the, and the, and the, the uniqueness of every location. Maybe that's naive.

How do you respond?

[01:05:07 - 01:09:01]

Guest A: I 100% think that's true. I mean, there's a few levels that I guess it makes sense to me. So like one of the most concrete ones is like one of the unique things we do is like, like we not only like have our managers come together in person twice a year, once actually is at that Hershey conference and then we do an off site. We also like pay for them to go to all the different facilities and spend a day there, a couple days there, learning what's going on there.

So one is that you get this sharing, it's like natural sharing, I guess, of like best practices and ideas and that sort of stuff where it's like we've had all sorts of amazing things come out of this where it's like people that are like, oh, like this location did this in terms of the way their facility flows or you know, this person uses this company for fecal testing or something, or even things that are broader where it's like they have a service line, we don't. I want to do this service line. And so we have all these things that come out of that. So in a way for us, that's been a natural way to like, not only invest in like our people and make sure that like they're seeing new ideas and like, you know, making good relationships with like, you know, the other managers.

Because a lot of times it can feel very much like you're on an island when it's like you're just like a mom and pop business and that's you. And it's like, so they love that aspect and it's been really good as far as just like getting new, fresh ideas. The other one is, I guess on the technology side you mentioned, so we do standardize like the booking software, the time tracking software, a few things like that. I mean, more, you know, the booking software is probably the one that's the most customer facing and that sort of thing.

But generally people like, like, I guess, like there's not that many choices, I guess in the industry. And so, so generally people, you know, usually use things that are fairly comparable. And so that is nice though, where it's like we've done that, we have more of a standardized thing and then we can kind of build tools on top of that. So obviously with some of my background in like the software side of things and that side of, you know, you know, my work and all that sort of thing, we spend time creating these like mini tools, right?

So it's like every, you know, know every location gets a, you know, a weekly, you know, summary of the data related to them. So like, how many new customers came through, like, how are our ratings looking, how's the service mix looking? All this sorts of stuff. And these are meant to be tools where it's like a lot of times, you know, actually I think almost close to 100% of the time, like none of the managers have had insight into like the business, right?

And the side of the things and all that sort of stuff, right. It's always like one step removed from that. So when you come in and you provide that like not. Is that only like super helpful?

Cause like, gosh, how do you manage a business that you like, have no visibility in on it? But at the same time too, like, we've essentially created like a very automated, efficient process for like generating those things and giving them that intel and then even cool like little like side tools where it's like we have one now that's the most recently I Think a couple weeks ago where it's like, hey, this customer on average waits, you know, X weeks between their groom of their dog. So if they go past that, you get a little flag as the manager on Monday mornings. Hey, you might want to reach out and remind this person, you call them, they're very thankful.

Oh gosh, that slipped my mind. That sort of thing. So things that like, make our customers lives better and make the managers lives better. There's a lot of like, little things you can do with technology.

I feel like that, like, make that simpler because, like, I don't know, with a single location, a lot of times those admin things, they bleed into the work. And for me it's like, no, no, it's like I want the manager spending as much time focused on like three things, right? It's like the pets, the pet parents and their team, right? And it's like spend as much time there.

Anything that's pulling you away from that, like, come talk to us, right? So that we can like, either maybe we can take some of that burden, maybe we can create a tool, maybe we can get a process, something like that to make that easier. And so, you know, repairs and maintenance, things like this that it's like no one wants to be like, who am I going to call when the like, sync starts leaking? Or that sort of stuff.

And so like, we've created a lot of stuff on that front to just make it where it's like, hey, and then when we go and we, we're looking at new locations, like your life I think will actually get easier once you join Argos, because there's going to be all these things we have for you that like, we'll introduce you to that should make your life better.

[01:09:01 - 01:09:07]

Host: Brendan, just have you for a few more minutes here. Got a couple more questions. Give us a, a snapshot of your day in the life.

[01:09:08 - 01:11:33]

Guest A: I spent a lot of time talking to our managers, assistant managers, people that are leading up new programs, that sort of stuff. So there's a lot of, you know, conversations that, that go on and that sort of stuff to make sure that like, like things that, you know, are going on across the locations that we are there, we're being partners with them, we're being very involved. And so I spent a ton of time, I guess, still on the operations side of things. And even with the ops team, it's like, you know, with, you know, the, the two great people that we have there, they work a ton on that.

But it's one of those things where I still like, to stay like, super plugged into that and like, on all those calls and that sort of thing and like, helping out. Because to me, it's like, that's really the last lifeblood of the business. So, you know, there's a lot of that sort of stuff. You know, I travel around fairly frequently to the different locations and spending time there.

Maybe we're rolling out a new system. Maybe it's just to check in, just see how things are going and that sort of stuff. So spend a decent amount of time on the road traveling between the different locations. And then I would say, like, the remainder of the time, a lot of times is just spent thinking about, like, what are we hearing from customer feedback, what are we hearing in the market, what are cool new things that we're seeing out there, new vendors, new opportunities to provide services for the customers, new things that could make things easier.

So there's part of that too that I would say is more the, like, I don't know, like, long term strategic, you know, work where it's like, where do we want these places to be, like, two years from now, five years from now? And then, like, what do we need to do today to go there? And then I spend a lot of time talking to people that like, reach out to us, looking to sell facilities. And sometimes we're the right fit and we want to, like, look, you know, further at those.

Other times they'd say, you know, to be honest, like, for the goals that you're looking for, like, you know, maybe we're not the right fit for different reasons. Like, we're very honest and upfront about what we're good at. And it's like, hey, if you're in the Midwest and you're in the range that we like, it's like, that's perfect. We had someone reach out in, you know, in Hawaii actually, and that sort of.

It's like, that's probably not going to be easy for me to drive to, you know, by definition. And so, you know, but at the same time, it's like, there's a lot of that that's going on. But. But yeah, it's definitely a business where it's like, you want to be available.

You always want to have your phone on. You know, I mean, it's like weekends, you know, evenings. There's always stuff that's going to come up and you just want to be there and that sort of stuff. So it's definitely like something where, you know, we're very involved and we're always kind of on and that sort of stuff.

But I don't know, like I said a few times, it's like, I do take that responsibility of, like, people are entrusting us with their pets super seriously. And I think that's got to be reflected in the way you actually, actually do your work.

[01:11:33 - 01:11:45]

Host: How much of the. Of those kind of weekend calls are you insulated from now with your management team or your two managers versus before when it. I guess every such call went to you?

[01:11:45 - 01:12:49]

Guest A: I guess one of the areas that's tangibly come different is sometimes it's like a call comes in and it's like more the three of us syncing up. It's like the ops team. And it's like, okay, like, how are you going to deal with this? So it's like, yeah, the initial call might go to someone else.

And like, yes, I try and provide very clear. You know, we. We're very big on documenting stuff, so it's like, hey, here's what we do in these different situations. And so I would say that has definitely reduced some of the calls.

It's just documenting things that were very much like, just, you know, more, you know, whatever tribal knowledge before, where it's like, yep, like, we kind of know how to do this, but maybe not all the team members do. We've tried to, like, I guess, write things down, and it's not changing the way people doing things. It's more just like, like, here's what we do. Let's write it down so that if it happens and whatever, that you can do that.

And so there's been good insulation, though. Like, it's one of those things where it's like. I would say they probably do take, you know, the majority of calls these days, but we're still syncing up on a ton of stuff where it's like, a lot of times it's like. And I'm just very involved, I would say broadly so.

It's like, even if there are things, if they want to talk through it and stuff, like, it's like, I don't care. It's like, if it's late or whatever, it's like, we'll still talk through it just to make sure we're all feeling good about it.

[01:12:49 - 01:13:20]

Host: Brendan, you don't seem to fixated on working on the business rather than in the business, graduating to working on rather than in the business. You seem like you are very in the business and that you're fine with that. I mean, you're trying to, you know, scale where you can or build a More robust organization where you can, but you're not trying to. You know, it doesn't seem like you're in a big rush to do as little operationally as possible.

Possible as quickly as possible. I mean, it's been five years and you're still very operationally.

[01:13:20 - 01:14:50]

Guest A: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it's like I. I find it funny because it's like, I mean, specifically because, like, so many of the other people in our space are very much like, you know, some of the, like, more private equity back thing where it's like, obviously with that, you can't be doing that sort of stuff, right, if you're gonna like, be having like 40, 50, 60 locations in the same way. But I don't know, I'd say for me, it's like, maybe that's just like who I am as a person as well, where it's like, I very much, much like to, like, dig into something, do it a bunch of different times, think about it, and then create something that maybe makes it better.

If there is a process that can make it better. And that sort of stuff. It's one of these things where it's like, it's a. It's a big job that the managers are doing and it's like, I mean, they are really, you know, the team is really the hero of the story.

And I really view myself as. It's like, you know, I should be providing a good service to them and that sort of stuff. It's almost the end verse where it's just like, you know, I. I want to provide for you guys things that make your life better, your life easier, and that sort of stuff.

And I think that's our job, right, as the operations team, is to make their thing as smooth as possible and as focused on the, you know, the pets and the customers, because, I don't know, I mean, that's just a big part of my philosophy, I guess, on business, right, is it's just like, it's a bunch of like, very small decisions. And if you make the good, very small decisions and like, great financial results follow, and it's like, we've got, you know, we've had really good results as far as, like, you know, our revenue and EBITDA growth and that sort of stuff. And I think part of that has changed just come from doing a bunch of small things well and then really just, you know, empowering the team, right? And it's like.

And if they're happy and the dogs are happy, it's like the rest of it almost take Care of itself. And so it's like, we just really spent a lot of time thinking about that.

[01:14:51 - 01:15:27]

Host: You'd said earlier that you weren't breathlessly trying to grow or acquire more, and you're, you're wary of getting out over your skis on acquisitions. Do you think about. Is it just sort of opportunistic at this point? Like, when you're ready, when you have the bandwidth with.

When you have the, the free cash flow and you have an opportunity that comes across your desk, you'll strike? Or are you trying to think about it more systematically and maybe raise capital from a, from a third party to go build more systematically, more aggressively? How are you thinking about that or are you not thinking about that?

[01:15:27 - 01:16:38]

Guest A: Yeah, I think a lot about it for sure, where it's like, we definitely, like, we, we. I, I look at a ton of different deals. I mean, we're signed up, I feel like, just like, over the years to, like, every broker who's like, remotely ever, like, you know, looked at this space and that sort of thing and, like, very active looking at stuff on, like, you know, biz by selling all the normal spots and that sort of thing. And so I look at a huge.

And then recently we've had a lot of people reach out to us, which has been, like, cool. But so I look at a lot of different deals and that sort of stuff. I guess what I would say, though is it's like, I don't know, like, if there's two very good deals, and I feel like we have the bandwidth and that sort of stuff to, like, go do it, it's like, like we're very quickly going to go look at those two deals. But if a stretch of a year goes by and there's nothing that, like, makes sense or is interesting, it's like, that doesn't bother me one bit.

There's a few interesting ones we're looking at right now, actually. So I think we will continue growing. I think for us it's just we want to make sure it's the right person that, like, fits the partnership that we're, you know, we're looking to do and that sort of thing. And, and that's the key bit for us where it's like we have, you know, we, we have the cash and that sort of stuff.

I think we have the team and that sort of thing. It's just like finding that right opportunity and it's like, like, I don't know, I'm the type where it's like, I'll look at hundreds of things and it's like I want to find that one that's like really, really interesting. And you know, yeah.

[01:16:40 - 01:17:35]

Host: Brendan, to wrap us up, what would your message or advice be to searchers? Because you, you started really early. You started in some ways you kind of started slowly. I mean your first acquisition was at 21 and then it was a number of years before you went all in on this and you, you know, you already had some, you guys had kind of slowly but surely built your operating chops, built your gotten your arms around the businesses, built it up to cash flow to a point where you could comfortably step in as full time CEO.

And as we already touched on, the ETA model for a lot of people means buying that first business. And that first business has to generate enough EBITDA for them to live on and so on. So as we talked about in the pre call, you're a little bit of a unique case. You're different than my typical guest.

So what do you think think is the is can the audience learn from your unique journey?

[01:17:35 - 01:20:17]

Guest A: Yeah, it's, it's interesting because it's funny. It's like one of these things that like I just have a lot of like more and more people like reach out to me about like you know, ETA and acquiring businesses and stuff like that. And it's like, I don't know the central messages. I feel like, you know, that I guess that like I try to communicate to people on that sort of stuff is like one like it's going to be like very hard.

Like operating a business is like very difficult and it's like one of those things where it's like, I don't know like, like I just one of those people that it's like always did really well in school. Like things always came very quickly and all that sort of thing and like you know, worked in very high performing jobs and that sort of thing. But it's like yeah, like it's like, I don't know, it's like the Mike Tyson quote. It's like everyone's got a plan.

So you get punched in the face and it's like you get punched in the face for sure like doing the small business stuff. And so it's like I think one is like just be really, you know, make sure that you're, you're ready for that, that journey and you're ready to really just like, you know, deal with that stuff as it comes up. Because even when we were doing it part time so you still had all that stuff. It's just like I just had to work a long time, right.

And like, really late and that sort of stuff and a lot of hours to, like, accomplish all those sorts of things and that sort of stuff. And then on the size, it's like, I really do, like. And I feel very, like, blessed about how early I started doing this because, like, for me, it's nice where it's like. Like I didn't have a family to, like, you know, to.

To feed and that sort of stuff. Like, I didn't have, like, people relying on me for that sort of thing. And I think I do actually really like the model of, like, starting small or, like, I've even advised some people where it's like, for the certain types of businesses, like, build one on your own or whatnot or that sort of thing. For certain industries.

For some industries, that doesn't make any sense or whatever, but, like, for some of them, it's like, yeah, try your hand in entrepreneurship first and, like, start small and like, make sure it's something that, like, you know, works out right for you and that sort of thing. Because some people, it's like, I just don't think they want to do it or they have a romanticized version of it. And it's like, for some people, it's the best fit. I feel amazing.

I love it every day of it. I think it's amazing. I feel so, like, happy doing it, but it's like, that's not everyone. And so I think for me, it's just like, really spend time thinking about, is that what you want to do?

You know, if you could start off small because maybe you don't have, like, the family obligations or that sort of stuff, like, Like, I think that's not a bad idea. And then just accelerate it from there. And then I guess the only other one too is like, find something that kind of, like, meshes with your interests and personality. Like, I'm a huge animal guy myself.

I've always been like that. And it wasn't necessarily like, like, you know, I didn't just buy a pet care business because I like pets and that sort of stuff, but it's made it a lot more fun where it's like, I love it because I just love dogs. And it's just like, so that really shines through, I think, and people can see that, like, from the managers to the customers, they. They get that.

[01:20:17 - 01:20:37]

Host: Yeah, well, Brendan, you're only 27 and you got many more years ahead of you. It'll be really. I mean, you really do have a head start. So I'd be feeling pretty optimistic if I were you.

Congratulations on, on getting such an early start and being successful with it so far. Is LinkedIn the best place to, to connect with you?

[01:20:37 - 01:20:56]

Guest A: Yeah, LinkedIn. LinkedIn is great. And then I'm also fine giving people my email address, so it's just, just Brendan Argos partners.com so either way. But yeah, I'm on LinkedIn.

I'm actually trying to write more on LinkedIn. So, you know, you know, anyone who wants to read about some of the stuff I'm doing, I'm trying to do more of that on there, but either of those is perfect.

[01:20:57 - 01:21:00]

Host: Perfect. Brendan Garon, thanks for joining us on Acquiring Minds.

[01:21:00 - 01:21:01]

Guest A: Thank you.

[01:21:01 - 01:21:49]

Host: Hope you enjoyed that interview. Don't forget to subscribe to the Acquiring Minds newsletter. We send an email from for every episode with an introduction to the interview, a link to the video version on YouTube, and soon, key takeaways, numbers and more essentials from the interview. For those of you who don't have time to listen or watch it, subscribe at acquiringminds Co.

You'll also find all our webinars there on the website, both those we have coming up and recordings of past webinar. At this point There are over 30 webinar recordings, a wealth of information on all the technical nitty gritty of buying a business. Acquiringminds copy.